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The future of warfare

RedRalph

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Jun 12, 2007
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from guardian

The British general set to take charge of UK and other Nato forces in southern Afghanistan warned today that time for tackling the Taliban was running out.

Major General Nick Carter, who will take charge of 45,000 troops six weeks from now, said there was an opportunity to "make a difference" in the next year but added that forces needed to show "positive trends" as soon as possible.

"I absolutely acknowledge that time is not on our side ... we've got to show positive trends as quickly as we possibly can," Carter told the BBC.

He said he was determined to seize the initiative from the Taliban by separating insurgents from the civilian population both physically and mentally, adding that civilians needed to be persuaded that coalition forces, rather than insurgents, deserved support.

"I think that it will happen slowly, but ... there'll be a tipping point when the population will suddenly realise that it's worth being with its government institutions rather than with the insurgent," he said.

He admitted roadside bombs were causing significant difficulties for Nato and said he hoped Afghan citizens would increasingly want to reveal where improvised explosive devices were hidden.

His comments came after the new head of the army, General Sir David Richards, said Britain's armed forces needed to be equipped with smarter weapons and rely less on traditional ones such as tanks, fast jets and surface ships in order to cope with emerging threats.

"The character of warfare is fundamentally changing," Richards said in his first major speech since taking up his post last month.

Describing Afghanistan as a "signpost to the future", he added: "Globalisation is increasing the likelihood of conflict with non-state and failed state actors, and reducing the likelihood of state on state warfare."

In a speech to the Chatham House thinktank yesterday, he warned: "Those focused on hi-tech but traditional inter-state conflict often confuse their case by asserting the need to be seen, for power projection reasons, to possess impressive amounts of traditional combat power."

He said they failed "to appreciate that an intelligent opponent will not be impressed by capabilities which can readily be made irrelevant through the adoption of asymmetric tactics or technology".

There is serious debate among defence chiefs about the future of traditional weapons systems, but they insist the future of Britain's nuclear deterrent is a "political" matter.

Richards suggested several weapons systems were becoming redundant, at least in comparison with the numbers procured in the past.

He warned: "We cannot go back to operating as we might have done even 10 years ago when it was still tanks, fast jets, and fleet escorts that dominated the doctrine of our three services.

"The lexicon of today is non-kinetic effects teams, counter-IED [improvised explosive devices, the favoured Taliban weapon], information dominance, counter-piracy, and cyber attack and defence."

Richards said even large states such as China and Russia would probably adopt unconventional tactics, adding: "Attacks are likely to be delivered semi-anonymously through cyberspace or the use of guerrillas."

He said "armed forces and other national security instruments across government must get better at tackling the challenges of this new security environment".

This, he explained, meant "ensuring our armed forces are relevant to emerging security challenges and the increasingly sophisticated adversaries we will face".

The general, who commanded Nato-led forces in Afghanistan during the first big surge of troops in 2006, said the conflict there would have "a profound effect on future conflict and geopolitics" and described Afghanistan as a "truly grand strategic issue" for Britain.


He said the Taliban ranged from hardline militant Islamists to drug barons and alienated tribal chiefs, but represented a tiny part of the Afghan population – "with their supporters, around 5% at most".

A perceived defeat of the US and Nato – "the most powerful alliance in the history of the world" – would have a "hugely intoxicating impact on extremists worldwide".

He also warned that the correct formula for Afghanistan had not yet been found.

After referring to a recent statement by Bob Gates, the US defence secretary, that America could not afford not to succeed in Afghanistan, the general added: "We should be part of that process, preserving our relationship with the US in the process but, more importantly, seeing through this thing we started courageously and meeting the expectations of the vast majority of Afghans who, despite their frustrations with the speed of progress, remain doggedly supportive of our effort and universally opposed to the hopeless future offered by the Taliban."


He also called for more effective co–operation across government, between the military and civil agencies. Defence chiefs have been impatient with the slow pace at which civil agencies have provided non-military assistance to Afghanistan.


Meanwhile, the British commander tasked with promoting engagement with Taliban "moderates" and convincing them to switch sides said he believed many in the enemy ranks had "done nothing wrong".

Lieutenant-General Sir Graeme Lamb told the Independent many of the Taliban's fighters carry a sense of "anger and grievances which have not been addressed".

"We need to take a good look at the people we consider to be our enemies," he said.

"A lot of young men fighting us have not done anything wrong. They have anger and grievances which have not been addressed.

"The better life they expected has not materialised – these are the people we must talk to, but we must make sure we have something to offer them."

I want to focus mainly on the bolded part. Do you agree that state on stae warfare is largely a thing of the past? Do you think even the western militaries could begin using guerilla tactics? Has the tank already seen its day? How should militaries respond to these challenges?
 
As I have said before, the reason state warfare is not happening right now is that because of the arsenals of several nations it is not a realistic option. If those arsenals are reduced, the option becomes realistic again.
 
I thought that the idea of "asymmetric warfare" has been well known for a long time now.
 
Not to derail the thread but this is the part I found most interesting, at least since it was coming from a Lt. General:

Meanwhile, the British commander tasked with promoting engagement with Taliban "moderates" and convincing them to switch sides said he believed many in the enemy ranks had "done nothing wrong".

Lieutenant-General Sir Graeme Lamb told the Independent many of the Taliban's fighters carry a sense of "anger and grievances which have not been addressed".

"We need to take a good look at the people we consider to be our enemies," he said.

"A lot of young men fighting us have not done anything wrong. They have anger and grievances which have not been addressed.

"The better life they expected has not materialised – these are the people we must talk to, but we must make sure we have something to offer them."

If we look at this as a struggle against a handful of evil, manipulative sociopaths who successfully recruited a much larger (relative to them) number of angry disenchanted young men, I think you can offer these angry disenchanted young men, and the societies they come from, something that will give them a vested interest in their futures and their families such that they will leave the company of this handful of psychopaths, rendering the Al Sadr's and the Bin Ladens relatively inert. Terrorism is after all basically a psychological battle. (This point is nothing new of course, just reiterating it again).

Countering things like IEDs and the like remains important, and showing the people they can be secure would of course still be a top priority, but they also should feel like they are invested in an Afghanistan that cannot allow a force like the Taliban to exist. I suspect the enormous influence of Opium production and the billions of black market dollars it generates is currently not helping us, for example. To follow that example along, I also don't necessarily think going out and simply burning every field we find would do anything to solve that problem.
 
darkreign.jpg


I thought that was the battle for hearts and minds? Have they lost the future?
 
darkreign.jpg


I thought that was the battle for hearts and minds? Have they lost the future?
Great game.

Russia and China have already begun experimenting with "attack-by-internet." I suspect we'll see a much greater focus on that and other assymetrical warfare in the future, yes. But it will come about as a way of combatting traditional weapons, not a replacement.
 
Solution: Nuke those mountains bordering Pakistan, Afghanistan and Kashmir. The Taleban command structure will be crushed and who would every F*** with the West ever?

If not leave Afghanistan history says you will never win their. Democracy in an modern Muslim country is hard in itself the poorest Muslim nation on Earth will never get democracy.

In any case nuclear missles will prevent war from happening between major powers and the third world's best weapon is an IED.
 
Solution: Nuke those mountains bordering Pakistan, Afghanistan and Kashmir. The Taleban command structure will be crushed and who would every F*** with the West ever?

If not leave Afghanistan history says you will never win their. Democracy in an modern Muslim country is hard in itself the poorest Muslim nation on Earth will never get democracy.

In any case nuclear missles will prevent war from happening between major powers and the third world's best weapon is an IED.

Spoken like a true Imperium Guard lieutenant :goodjob:
 
Spoken like a true Imperium Guard lieutenant :goodjob:
So Al-Qaeda is the Freedom Guard? FRIGGIN' AWESOME!

Quackers, don'tcha think that nukin' them mountains might provoke some sort of response from China, Russia, or even India?
 
So Al-Qaeda is the Freedom Guard? FRIGGIN' AWESOME!

No, the Taleban is the Freedom Guard. Osama is Togra hiding in his hole.
 
I'm here on a short break but yes this it makes a lot of sense to me and I believe the trend is inevitable.

Since this is a civilization game forum I have a good example of this and can explain several points of why this trend is actually a good thing. When I play civilization 3 I prefer to use a certain modified version of the DyP mod, set to start in its modern era. From seeing how nations take centuries to be interesting opponents and because my own nation takes as long to build up, I made a particular mod. A relatively weak guerilla unit that is cheap to produce and has the hidden nationality flag set. This lets a nation attack its enemies without endangering its own incredibly expensive infrastructure. This is so useful I rarely have to engage in full warfare to force the other nations to whatever I want them to do. Forcing them to abandon strategic resources, taking outlying cities encroaching on my cultural influence, etc. literally anything you might want to do in the scope of the game can be done using them instead of declaring official war. The drawback is that the hidden nationality flag means that every nation wants to kill those units as soon as it knows where they are, so sometimes hi tech armor is required but I get by with a lot less of it.

This brings up several interesting points. China is a rising superpower but its often said they don't have the necessary force projection abilities, but this trend means that everything that made that necessary in the past is being left behind.
 
I want to focus mainly on the bolded part. Do you agree that state on stae warfare is largely a thing of the past? Do you think even the western militaries could begin using guerilla tactics? Has the tank already seen its day? How should militaries respond to these challenges?

Wasnt that the consensus after WWI too?

Believe it's why the US' military was sub-par on the outbreak of WWII and had to be kicked into high gear.
 
I thought state-on-state warfare didn't occur that much anymore because of the greater interdependence of nations today.
 
So Al-Qaeda is the Freedom Guard? FRIGGIN' AWESOME!

Quackers, don'tcha think that nukin' them mountains might provoke some sort of response from China, Russia, or even India?

we can take on all three, at the same time.:rolleyes:


you wouldnt know about having a strong military since your from failstralia.
 
"As you go forth today, your duty is clear: to build and maintain those robots."

But in general, the points about assymetric warfare/terrorists are reasonable, I wouldn't expect to see any large state vs. state warfare in the near future.
 
The most important thing when fighting a war, is fighting with the best advantage available to defeat your enemy. So I agree with General Carter that he has to adapt his army to fight the Taliban with tactics and weapons that will defeat them. However, I would not put tanks and fast jets on ice. I do not believe the day of traditional warfare with this technology is over. I will say that their days are numbered, techology is moving in fast forward, and warfare is ever changing.
 
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