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The General Police Brutality Thread

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Cheetah, Sep 1, 2015.

  1. EgonSpengler

    EgonSpengler Warlord

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    Actually, speaking of the other officers, the ones who didn't actually kill the kid: Based on the story it seems like some or all of them fired at the car as it was driving away. I think this was in a residential neighborhood, so a couple of questions immediately leap to mind. First, are police officers allowed to fire at a fleeing suspect like that? I think one of the findings of the report into the Massachusetts shootout with the Boston Marathon bombers was that officers there had poor fire discipline and were shooting at the suspects' car as they drove down a residential street (no civilians were hit, although 1 officer was nearly killed by friendly fire).

    Also, according to the Times article, one of them can be heard saying "They shot at us, too, right?" At first I thought this was the guy just trying to get the story straight with his colleagues. As in, "We're all going to say we were defending ourselves, right?" But then something else occurred to me. I've read that soldiers and marines are taught to fire when their fellows are firing and not to worry about what the target is (after WWII, it was found that a lot of soldiers didn't return enemy fire if they couldn't actually see the enemy). I wonder how many police officers are former soldiers, and whether police officers are trained to shoot when their colleagues are shooting.
     
  2. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

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    On the firing at the car...the courts have unfortunately decreed that if a cop crashes into your car its fine and dandy, but if you crash into theirs it is attempted murder of a police officer. Anything the cops do after the cars make contact is "self defense." If the car is fleeing then that is an attempted murder suspect armed with their weapon of choice and presenting a clear danger to the public.

    The fact that the (generally) poorly aimed volley of cop lead is more likely to injure the public than the guy with the car is of no consequence.
     
  3. EgonSpengler

    EgonSpengler Warlord

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    It's true, all the "Blue Lives Matter" people seem to conveniently forget the fact that most jurisdictions already give police officers a great deal more leeway than they give the average citizen when it comes to using force, and already provide police officers with special protections.

    Anyway, onto other news... Shockingly, the Justice Department found rampant civil liberties abuses, racial bias, and use of excessive force by the Baltimore Police.

    The Wall Street Journal, 10 Aug 16 - Justice Department Finds Unconstitutional Practices Within Baltimore Police Department

     
  4. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

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    On an even more basic level no one needs to affirm that Blue Lives matter because everyone already knows they do. In fact it's pretty obvious that our institutions place a rather higher value on Blue Lives than on anyone else's life.

    Black Lives on the other hand...

    Also worth pointing out that being a police officer is not a particularly dangerous job, at least not according to the statistics.
     
  5. EgonSpengler

    EgonSpengler Warlord

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    More on Baltimore, from The New York Times.

    9 August - Justice Department to Release Blistering Report of Racial Bias by Baltimore Police

    10 August - Findings of Police Bias in Baltimore Validate What Many Have Long Felt


     
  6. Skritcakes

    Skritcakes Chieftain

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    The police are good people I like them more than I like the average citizen.
     
  7. Old Hippy

    Old Hippy Chieftain

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    when they are on the couch drinking a beer and watching the football
    they are the average citizen, something they forget at times
     
  8. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

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    Tfw having parking tickets warrants summary execution
     
  9. west india man

    west india man Immortal

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    Tfw DWB warrants immediate execution
     
  10. EgonSpengler

    EgonSpengler Warlord

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    So I'm reading about this disabled girl who got her [butt] kicked by security at an airport in Memphis, and I'm thinking that it may just be foolish to even ask police officers to interact with people in certain situations.

    USA Today, 11 Aug 16 - Video: Memphis airport police, disabled St. Jude patient fight

    I can't bring myself to watch the video, but the article notes that the girl was the first to throw a punch. I guess it just has be considered axiomatic now that someone in a law enforcement or security role is unable to deal with a tense situation with anything other than overwhelming violence. The obvious solution is to remove these officers from tense situations where violence isn't the right answer.

    I think we need an entirely new role, an entirely new civil service position, that takes over some of what we burden police officers with. Kind of like "emergency social workers" or something (I'd like to come up with a better name than that, though :lol: ). Maybe we just need to assume that security officers and law enforcement officers and the like are only useful when violence is actually called for, because of course there are times when it is.
     
  11. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

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    Having seen the idiot in charge of law enforcement in Milwaukee, I cannot pretend to be surprised that the community's response is 'start fires now, ask questions later.' That guy is definitely someone I would expect to be holding on to the body cam footage just to raise tensions higher so he can get more air time.
     
  12. kramerfan86

    kramerfan86 Chieftain

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    While there are many cases of police brutality I don't feel the one in Milwaukee is really an example of that however distrust has reached such a fever pitch that even reasonable shootings are going to create rage
     
  13. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

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    That's the problem.

    Everyone needs to ask themselves "do I live in a Ferguson?"

    There is no way to guess where an incident will happen. Big city. Suburb. Small city. Could be anywhere.

    There is no way to tell what it will be, or even what it was afterwards. Good cop in a bad situation doing the right thing? Bad cop on a power trip? Accident?

    But what you can figure out ahead of time is that a place like Ferguson, with years of history showing a police force seemingly committed to preying on a public they consider the enemy, if it does draw the short straw and host the incident, is gonna go up in flames.

    Same with Milwaukee. ANYONE watching the sheriff of Milwaukee County rant, spittle frothing from his lips, about "cop haters" and the horrors of law enforcement being "handcuffed" by such trivialities as the constitution, could have guessed that if Milwaukee's number ever happened to come up it would be a disaster.

    And here we are.
     
  14. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    Riots used to be very rare, and now we get them every year.
    Hopefully the 10P.M. curfew will calm things down in Milwaukee.

    So far only 6 businesses have burned and no deaths beyond the original police shooting. (O'Reilly's Auto Parts always seems to go first. :hmm:)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Milwaukee_riots
     
  15. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Until you get independent, systemic evaluation and enforcement on police practices this kind of stuff probably isn't going to stop.

    That's not personal experience talking, but just the many-times observed nature of power, incentives, and rules that are not pinned down as written.

    What metric is used to track correct and wrong law enforcement, and who checks this against reasonably expected rates? I can look up the statistics of a low-tier college football player below FBS on the internet in minutes or less.

    What are the relevant stats and how are they tracked when it comes to consistently enforcing law? You'd think that would be more important, in principle. Harder to get perfectly accurate measures, but you don't need perfectly accurate external measures at the individual level (internal measures can handle that if organization-wide metrics are enforced externally).

    Too hard to even try? Anybody here buying that still? Small firms are held to higher standards on their financial statements.

    There are lots of good police that risk their lives and don't engage in brutality. There really are. But systemically, it's a system designed to allow power trippers or worse and gives limited if any real disincentive to behave dishonestly. Unsurprisingly, you also get a lot of dishonest behavior.
     
  16. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

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  17. EgonSpengler

    EgonSpengler Warlord

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    Anyone who wants to understand why people are so mistrusting of and angry at police officers should watch this video. There's not much in the way of real violence. The woman wasn't hurt or charged with anything, and didn't have anything stolen from her besides her dignity. It's just an outstanding example of how police officers can and will [screw] with people without any reasonable justification.

    The woman is a 32-year-old school teacher. Just before this video, a man had propositioned the woman's friend and the woman went off on the guy (verbally, not physically). The police officer evidently thought/assumed the woman was a prostitute. I've read that the officer can be heard telling her "Your [butt] is dust", although I can't make it out myself (and I'm not sure what that means, other than what I guess I can infer).

    D.C. Police have launched an investigation to find out if the officer broke any laws, but I don't really care whether he did or not. Unless this video was faked, we can clearly see a police officer manhandling a woman and then letting her go. He should tender his resignation or be fired, along with every other officer who thinks this is how police ought to behave.


    Link to video.
     
  18. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

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    The police will tell you that it's really unfair having people with camera's everywhere. In the good old days he'd probably have been able to rape her. That's why they support Trump. He promises to make America great again.
     
  19. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

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    Apparently the Seattle police union is demanding extra money and benefits from the city in exchange for....wait for it...Constitutional policing.

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slat..._seattle_police_union_black_lives_matter.html

    I'm generally in favor of organized labor but jeez....this is ridiculous.
     
  20. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

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    Police unions aren't organized labor, they are guilds of thugs.
     

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