The Great DoC UHV v 1.10 challenge

calad

Emperor
Joined
Jul 26, 2012
Messages
1,385
Depends what civ you are playing - some like Babylon, Egypt, Ethiopia and Mali are just about impossible on Emperor no matter what you do, as you can't tech fast enough to get the necessary techs in time. Others like Maya need you to do everything right from the start if you're to win. But most of them are doable if you're fast and aggressive enough, although you need a decent starting situation with ones like Byzantium and Prussia.

Which ones are you having trouble with?

All civs that have to research techs: Rome, China... They would be possible without tech UHV but because of all penalties your research speed is abysial slow and AI has so many benefits you cant succeed. Not mention Rome and China UHV requires many cities making even monarchy level challenge extreamly difficult.
 

Swarbs

Emperor
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Sep 2, 2009
Messages
1,083
All civs that have to research techs: Rome, China... They would be possible without tech UHV but because of all penalties your research speed is abysial slow and AI has so many benefits you cant succeed. Not mention Rome and China UHV requires many cities making even monarchy level challenge extreamly difficult.

China can be a bit tough, but you just need to choose your starting cities carefully, and make best use of food resources to get great people. Make sure to conquer Korea as soon as you can, as they will be your main competition for techs.

I find Rome to be relatively easy, cos you can often kill most of the civs that would compete with you for techs (Greece, Egypt, Babylon), and so have relatively little competition for tech rushing. Just make sure to focus on tech buildings early, and build research if you have any cities not doing anything. Also, when conquering civs, take all their cities bar one, then let them sue for peace and take the techs you need. They'll collapse soon after and you can mop them up anyway.
 

Barbuesque

Prince
Joined
Dec 5, 2011
Messages
306
I disagreed. When playing Emperor difficulty you need every gamey and dirty trick to achive UHV. Otherwise it is nearly impossible.

The difficulty level and the impossibily or not of achieving the UHV is irrelevant. I do agree with you that some of them need rebalancing so they can be reliably achieved on monarch (not the case with a lot of them ATM), and have a decent shot at emperor. That's not the case right now.

So simply said, no. suggest fixes the civs that have issues instead.
 

Swarbs

Emperor
Joined
Sep 2, 2009
Messages
1,083
The difficulty level and the impossibily or not of achieving the UHV is irrelevant. I do agree with you that some of them need rebalancing so they can be reliably achieved on monarch (not the case with a lot of them ATM), and have a decent shot at emperor. That's not the case right now.

So simply said, no. suggest fixes the civs that have issues instead.

Agreed. Babylon, Egypt and Ethiopia currently have the biggest issues, as with the tech penalties it seems impossible to get CoL before Persia spawns, to get Literature in time for the GL deadline for Egypt, and to research Theocracy and Calendar by 600AD for Ethiopia to get Catholicism and Incense. But neither of those can be solved by cheating. All the others should be winnable using superior strategies imo.
 

blizzrd

Micromanager
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Dec 27, 2005
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Location
Melbourne, Australia
Can we please keep this thread for what it was intended to be and not a general discussion thread?
 

Sarius1997

Warlord
Joined
Dec 13, 2011
Messages
132
Location
Germany
Settings: Normal/Monarch
UHV Date:1772 AD
Score:2977

Strategy was basicly the same as in my 1.9 UHV, although it was insanely hard, becuase the later spawn, then in 1.9. Got the second UHV by capturing Macao, and Singapor, giving them back, and capturing them again(I know it´s gamey. :p). The third UHV, was via, Caribbean, 2 Guynnean, Madagasian, and 3 Spices in Indonesia. But it was really insanely hard now.
 

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Neshalin

Chieftain
Joined
Dec 27, 2010
Messages
96
Ethiopia is rather annoying. Your starting location stinks, unique unit takes a while to come into play, stability is bad and it literally takes ages to complete the UHV. Still, after having tried before and losing to stability, I was determined to finish the damn thing.

The start was slightly positive, flipping two zulu medjays. These stayed home to defend while the rest of the army marched into Egypt, finding it heavily defended but at war with Rome. This gave opportunity for pillaging and trade, at least.

First UHV condition is fairly easy now; not as dependent on luck as it used to be. I founded Jabuuti on the coastal cow for an early production bonus. It built a library, then ran two scientists until it was about ready to pop a great scientist: I wanted a great prophet for a shrine first. Muqdisho on the horses in Somalia built a stele, then ran a priest while building a work boat followed by some units. Research of theology finished a little before the great prophet would be here; you can only expect to bulb theology with early religion spread or by conquest.

Second UHV condition is a bit annoying, because you can only peacefully get two incense sources. The third can be had either in Egypt, which was now taken by Rome; or in Arabia, which would flip; or all the way in India, which didn't seem feasible. I ended up settling on the southern incense on the final turn and just took the stability hit from Arabia flipping the city.

And then there's the third UHV condition. One could describe it as freedom to do as you please. I had settled Zanzibar and Gondar(Durban) rather early, but was struggling with stability for the longest time. Three 12-turn golden ages were needed to prevent collapse. Economy sucks, there is little to trade, and you get a hefty penalty from all the desert tiles. I even had Nationalism researched before Astronomy, just to get another golden age and not collapse. Perhaps Liberalism and Commonwealth would have been a better idea.

I had been running city states, but the stability penalty is really hard to deal with as Ethiopia. I couldn't expand into America with it. A bunch of golden ages and civic switches allowed me to get through the rough times, then start a world war with Autocracy and all problems disappeared :)

Well, except for the problem where it still takes ages to get to 1910, and AI turns that take half a minute or more. I found this more of a test of endurance than anything else, really. Still, got there, in the end.

There are a couple issues I ran into:
- Ethiopia cannot dismiss mercenaries. On an earlier attempt this cost me a dozen gold every turn, so I had to play without mercenaries this time. Even when they die, you're still paying, just slightly less. Very annoying.
- Portugal seems to pop up with random cities in the middle of my culture. Quelimane never had room to spawn, but that didn't seem to stop the Portuguese from settling there anyway. This was just after their respawn, too, so I had to wait several turns before I could raze the city. Also annoying.
- Did I mention bad stability? Even before taking El Uqsur and Makkah, there was like a -20 for tiles. Are stability penalties really necessary for worthless tiles in your core (and perhaps also historical) territory?

Spoiler :

Took El Uqsur after Egyptian respawn and Makkah after Arabia collapsed. The shrine seemed useful enough.


Army returning home from subjugating Congo and razing Portuguese colonies in their area. They refused to vassalize for the longest time.


America!


Fourteen hours on normal speed :s


and a crappy score for all the trouble.
 

Neshalin

Chieftain
Joined
Dec 27, 2010
Messages
96
Oops, forgot the save.
 

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Noodz

Warlord
Joined
Jan 30, 2012
Messages
138
Ethiopia is rather annoying. ...[/SPOILER]

Yes it is, though i like to play them for some reason. I had a normal game going in 1800, but i had neglected defensive treaties and was in war against half of the world. Now i have a marathon game going, but i'm still in the 1500 and it WILL TAKE LONG

My thoughts:

1. There's no way to found catholicism without bulbing theology. I always dedicate the second city to whipping a stele and starting a prophet right away. Bonus time if you get a foreign religion, but it's not guaranteed;

2. Capturing Niwt Rst is always good for the incense, copper and for the possible wonders. Even if i know it will flip to arabians, i always try to get it;

3. It was worse in RFC, but impis are still immensely annoying. Try to get some axes up from the egyptian copper, and get every mercenary axe you come across, they are the only reliable way to dispatch them before guilds

4. Park your starting trireme in japan, and do your best to trade with the eastern civs. This is doubly true for techs, pre-nobunaga japan is very good for this. Priority techs should be feudalism, metal casting, machinery, construction and engineering.

5. Tech path: theology(bulb), calendar, (guild prereqs), guilds, gunpowder. Since you have no easy access to metal, you NEED gunpowder asap. Askaris are GOOD, train them nonstop. For this reason you might want to stick to dynasticism/feudalism for a while;

6. Founding protestantism is good. Capturing mecca is worth the stability hit. And i always bee line for economics, trade routes more than make up for the bad yields.

I have a feeling you shouldn't have gone city states, ethiopia just doesn't have the food to make it worth the stability hit. I think it's better to stick to stability-friendly civics and get both niwt-rst and mecca.
 

Neshalin

Chieftain
Joined
Dec 27, 2010
Messages
96
I founded Catholicism without bulbing :rolleyes:. In all my playthroughs and restarts, scientists and building research were enough to get theology before the great prophet was ready in the second city. Still, it might be worthwhile to bulb it anyway and start researching calendar instead.

Besides random impi invasions, you also face pairs of medjay archers. Sometimes fours. The initial swordsman can hold them off until you start expanding (into Egypt or South Africa). I sent the axeman south to deal with impis attacking the colonies, along with a combat 5 drill 2 medjay mercenary. I added drill 3 and 4 before upgrading the unit to grenadier. Quite the hero :D

Were those wars ever troublesome for you? I find Ethiopia remote enough that almost nobody bothers to send an army. Just got to deal with their navy.

I'm afraid you're right on the city states. It seems so nice with the great library and the red fort and mercantilism, and so many more great people with the leaning tower, but having to use them for golden ages kind of defeats the purpose, I guess. Stability was really awful. Without city states, I could have much earlier astronomy and good economy rating by expanding into America. Hmm... or perhaps you can conquer Europe?
 

Noodz

Warlord
Joined
Jan 30, 2012
Messages
138
I founded Catholicism without bulbing :rolleyes:. In all my playthroughs and restarts, scientists and building research were enough to get theology before the great prophet was ready in the second city. Still, it might be worthwhile to bulb it anyway and start researching calendar instead.

Besides random impi invasions, you also face pairs of medjay archers. Sometimes fours. The initial swordsman can hold them off until you start expanding (into Egypt or South Africa). I sent the axeman south to deal with impis attacking the colonies, along with a combat 5 drill 2 medjay mercenary. I added drill 3 and 4 before upgrading the unit to grenadier. Quite the hero :D

Were those wars ever troublesome for you? I find Ethiopia remote enough that almost nobody bothers to send an army. Just got to deal with their navy.

I'm afraid you're right on the city states. It seems so nice with the great library and the red fort and mercantilism, and so many more great people with the leaning tower, but having to use them for golden ages kind of defeats the purpose, I guess. Stability was really awful. Without city states, I could have much earlier astronomy and good economy rating by expanding into America. Hmm... or perhaps you can conquer Europe?

I actually never tried getting to theology with a fast library and scientists... might be worth a try :p

You are right that the wars were not too worrysome, i guess my fault was that holding on to mecca made the ottomans very aggressive, to the point where i forgot about the portuguese and dutch in south africa. I think i should play more isolationist next time.
 

Neshalin

Chieftain
Joined
Dec 27, 2010
Messages
96
In my game, the Ottoman empire was huge, running through east Europe, south Germany and covering all of France. (All of France? No, a tiny village still offered resistance to the Ottoman legions.) After I adopted Secularism, they got friendly despite close borders. It was a very sweet position to be in, protected by such a powerful empire and our defensive pact.
 

iOnlySignIn

Prince$s
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Nov 4, 2011
Messages
2,134
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Virgo Supercluster
In my game, the Ottoman empire was huge, running through east Europe, south Germany and covering all of France. (All of France? No, a tiny village still offered resistance to the Ottoman legions.) After I adopted Secularism, they got friendly despite close borders. It was a very sweet position to be in, protected by such a powerful empire and our defensive pact.
Yeah the Ottomans are probably my favorite AI along with England. Except when I play as America, where I beat both of them to pulp.
 

Ororo

King
Joined
Jul 10, 2010
Messages
837
Location
Slovakia/Czech Republic
Went with a similar city setup as in 1.9 SVN but this time I managed to get some really good early game trades.
Reformation failed so I had settle 7 cities before 1650AD and revolt to Catholicism.
Portugese trading company never came.
This time I went for Steel, which seems like a quicker route to Industrial Age. I bulbed Printing Press and Chemistry (avoid Astronomy, otherwise you'll bulb Sci Method), then even managed to spawn a GE but couldn't bulb Steel as I already had Replaceable Parts (which unfortunately unlocks Steam Engine). Doesn't really matter as it would only save me like 2 turns.
Here's a screenshot of just how powerful tech trades are:

Spoiler :

(Printing Press netted me quite a lot of techs as well. Generally your major trade baits are Education and Printing Press/Liberalism. You can usually get something for Military Science as well.)

The empire:

Spoiler :

Score:

Spoiler :
 

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Cambronne

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Nov 11, 2012
Messages
1
Hello everyone ! I've been playing this mod since a while, but just earned my very first DoC 1.10 UHV victory with Korea. Decided to register and post to celebrate it !

Got quite a lucky start with quite weak Chinese. Managed to conquer Mukden from Barbarians with the starting army, settled Chongjin and Changchun. Built the stupa in the very productive Chongjin, whipped 5 pop to finish the academy in the capital Hanseong in time (later the academy was destroyed by a hurricane). Discovered Philosophy thanks to a great scholar, then traded it with China against Machinery and some gold, which allowed me to beeline Paper, then Printing Press in 1410 AD.

Lost Mukden and Changchun at the Mongol spawn as I agreed to the flip, but conquered Shanghai and Fuzhou when China collapsed after the Mongol invasion. Managed to improve my relations with Genghis, in order not to get owned, by agreeing to tributes, sharing a common religion and later signing a defensive pact (1580 AD). Once the western border was secured thanks to it, I declared war to Japan for the navy UHV, which was a piece of cake because of the underdeveloped Japanese navy.

Unexplicably (see 3rd screenshot), the game remained frozen after the historical victory triggered. I tried to reload the last autosave several times, but in vain.

Thus I couldn't even know my score ... It wouldn't have been very high anyway, but at least I'm proud to be the first to achieve UHV with Korea ^^

Edit : thanks for the nice welcome and advice, Neshalin ! I did what you recommended, it triggered the victory and now I know my score ! Pretty sure it can be beaten easily anyway (casual player around here !) ... I could win earlier, but not before making sure the Mongols wouldn't backstab me and burn my cities with their kimchi shops to ashes ^^
 

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Neshalin

Chieftain
Joined
Dec 27, 2010
Messages
96
Nice work, and welcome to civfanatics! It always feels good to score another victory, doesn't it? Too bad about the crash. You could go into the worldbuilder and make some changes to trigger a different victory type so that you'll at least know your score. Deleting every other civ is a lot of work, but at least you'll be sure not to change your own score.

Now that you've completed Korea, which civilization will you take on next? Or reckon you could improve the time on this one? 1742 sounds fairly late (but I've honestly never played Korea so I could be way off).
 

Gigaz

civoholic
Joined
Feb 5, 2007
Messages
1,229
Location
Dresden
China can be a bit tough, but you just need to choose your starting cities carefully, and make best use of food resources to get great people. Make sure to conquer Korea as soon as you can, as they will be your main competition for techs.

I played a game with China and theres a much easier solution to that problem:

Vassalize Korea. When he goes for a tech that you must have first, tell him to research something else. Vassals must obey. ;)
 

Spirictum

Immortal
Joined
Oct 19, 2007
Messages
3,105
Location
Brazil
Unexplicably (see 3rd screenshot), the game remained frozen after the historical victory triggered. I tried to reload the last autosave several times, but in vain.

This happened with me too, but in RFCEurope (you can see my post about it here - http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11956546&postcount=314)
To enable the victory pop-up I clicked on the minimap (I didn't know about it, I just tried everything).

I passed the turn, got the victory phrase in the bottom of the screen, a cuirassier attacked me and then it froze. After trying anything possible I clicked on the minimap to see a different place, and then the victory box popped.

Because of this victory I discovered that RFCE gives a lot more points to winning by UHVs then by Domination (I got both victories on the same turn, so I reloaded and got the other victory and have both victory scores - UHVs: 17664; Domination: 8664 :hmm:). Don't know if DoC is like this too.
 

Neshalin

Chieftain
Joined
Dec 27, 2010
Messages
96
Inspired by some strategy discussion elsewhere on the forum, I decided to see what all the fuzz was about and played Poland. Yuck. I really have no idea what they're doing in the mod. The goals are all really tight, leaving little room for having fun. They are also indeed very luck based. I had several failed attempts with the plague whittling down my population, double and triple war declarations with no defences to speak of, plus the odd crappy start where I couldn't even found Riga. Then there's the failed battles to take Kiev - even with all five starting units, odds are you'll lose the battle.

Even the game I won, I was afraid I'd lose. I spent the second half of the game at war with Holy Rome and Norway. I didn't lose any cities, but the war declarations were inopportune to be sure. One time, I had taken Rome with Holy Roman 'help', only to have my army cut off from the main land by a Holy Roman Venice. Besides the wars, I thought I'd never make the cathedrals requirement either. Through some miracle, the Mongols offered to trade me Printing Press, just in time for a reformation, four quick churches and a cathedral. I finished researching Liberalism a turn later than I'd like, in 1605.

Spoiler :

The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth (not actually running commonwealth) consisted of the usual cities, as well as a hastily thrown down settlement by the black sea to help get enough temples on time, and Rome, which sadly didn't have time to really shine. It just built a temple and some units.


One of the many problems with Poland: their unique unit doesn't actually come into play when going for UHV.


 

blizzrd

Micromanager
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
3,738
Location
Melbourne, Australia
Italian UHV

Monarch/Normal
Score: 5046
Date: virtual UHV in 1784AD


Built capital Genova on the stone (much better location than the start tile). Captured Rome immediately but let Venice flip. Declared war on Byzantines to capture Napoli too. No further expansion for quite some time though.

Research order was Meditation, Drama, (bulb Philospophy with Great Scientist), Banking, Music, (bulb Patronage with Great Artist). On the turn that Patronage came in, I also traded for Paper and Divine Right.

Rome started building San Marco's Basilica as the first wonder in mid 1300s once Banking was learnt. Venice started building Leaning Tower and Genova started building Sistine Chapel just after 1400. All wonders were done by 1450AD.

I turned up the culture slider during the 1400s. By mid 1400s I realised that I wasn't going to be able to both research Liberalism and make the cultural goal before 1500AD so I turned off research and turned up culture to 100%, before going back to researching Liberalism just before 1500.

The last UHV condition is really quite boring. With 400+ years to achieve, there is a lot of not-very-much to do. I built up forces for quite some time, before eventually declaring war on Turkey and conquering the Mediteranean coast as far as Jerusalem. Virtual UHV was achieved by taking the Moroccan cities once Moors finally collapsed. Much later, Egypt also collapsed and I quickly assimilated their former coastal cities including Libya too.

The Italian UU is really very strong, but the UHV is all over by the time it becomes available.

The final UHV condition should definitely be expanded to include a requirement to control the horn of Africa (Abyssinia and Somalia).
Spoiler :
 
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