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the Great Italian Wars - PBEM for 6 players

Discussion in 'Civ3 - PBEM Games' started by Glasnost, Oct 3, 2011.

  1. Glasnost

    Glasnost Prince

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2011
    Messages:
    544
    Welcome to the Great Wars of Italy!

    The fate of the Apennine Peninsula will be in your hands. You will be controlling one of 6 important citystates in the history of Italy battling to became to sole leader of the whole territory. Those citystates are Naples, Papal States, Sicily, Florence, Milan and Venice.

    Relatively small map and strategically placed resources will make the diplomacy, right timing of war and strategical thinking very important.

    Participating players and order of turns:

    1. Glasnost - Papal States - India
    2. RickFGS - Naples - Carthage
    3. Bowsling - Venice - France
    4. Bengal Tiger - Milan - Greece
    5. I. Larkin - Sicily - Netherlands
    6. J Kovic - Florence - Japan

    Bans: Persia, Maya, Iroquois, Spain, Egypt, Celts

    This map is not designed to be full scenario with custommade units, leaders, techs etc.
    Map will use mostly standard settings. However these things are different:
    1.Curragh can hold 1 unit
    2.Everyone will start with a prenamed city, settler, warrior and a worker. Sicily will also start with one curragh.
    3.Archer and Longbowman have been made amphibious (and UU's that replace those).

    Victory conditions are the standard 5 with conquest, domination, culture, spacerace and diplomacy.

    Cultural flipping is allowed but SGL's are not.

    This game will use stardard PBEM etiquette and rules with few exceptions. If you don't know if some particular action is against the rules, please use these to clarify things:

    Bowsling set of standard rules:
    Spoiler :

    Section A: Domestic Exploits

    1. It is not allowed to break in to the city screen pre-production phase to maximize production.
    2. Deficit spending is not allowed. The player must have enough gold reserves to maintain a deficit without having units disbanded or buildings demolished.
    3. Adding workers to cities is tolerated only as long as it does not cause the city to starve.
    4. Intentionally starting civil disorder in cities to stop starvation is not allowed.

    Section B: Diplomatic Exploits

    1. You are not permitted to declare war on another civilization if you are giving them a per turn deal that you are not receiving anything per turn in exchange.
    2. Trading cities in order to have the city's garrison returned to the capital is not allowed. If you trade cities via diplomacy, the involved cities must be empty of units.

    Section C: Military Exploits

    1. If you declare war on your turn, you are not allowed to attack cities of your target until the next turn. An exception to Rule 1.0 is in the case of a city that has been founded during the last 5 turns in your territory or in a position to immediately gain any of your tiles.
    2. If an airbase is removed in any way by your own doing, all air units based in it must be have been removed beforehand.
    3. Intentionally having military units destroyed by a unit that has creates non-combat units through enslavement is forbidden.
    4. It is not allowed to sign a Right of Passage with a computer player and then station a unit on a strategic or luxury resource to prevent them from connecting it.
    5. Putting a submarine or other invisible unit in the way of a ship belonging to a computer player with the intention of using the sub bug to have the computer declare war on you is not allowed.
    6. It is not allowed to prevent unit landings using non-combat units.

    Section D: Multiplayer Rules

    1. If a player controls more than one civilization in sequential order, they must save and exit after each turn rather than continue.

    2. Showing screenshots is not permitted until either party has the ability to trade maps.
    2.1 An exception to Rule 2.0 is in the case of a screen that is not unique (i.e. a wonder splash).
    2.2 Another exception to Rule 2.0 is if the screenshot does not reveal excessive information and is intended for entertainment or other non-related purposes.

    3. Players are only allowed to discuss game issues once they have met in-game.

    4. Intentionally allowing another player to capture non-combat units is not allowed.

    5. Reloading the save should only happen in case of a crash or a mistake while saving, and should be reported in the game thread.

    6. City names must not be named in a way that they can be confused with anything else that can be traded. (i.e. naming a desert city “20 gold (per turn)”)

    7. Any military action taken against another player must to be reported. The location, attacker, the defender, the result and the hit points remaining on the winner should be clearly documented.


    Multi-Site DemoGame rules applicable to PBEM:
    Spoiler :

    In-Game Glitches/Bugs/Exploits
    1.1 - Double-Duty Exploit
    Description: No player is permitted to 'allow' the capture of their bombardment or workers with the intent of executing a double-duty exploit.

    Definition: Two or more players capturing and recapturing non-combat units (Including bombardment units) with the intent to use them against a third party team simultaneously.

    Purpose: To prevent two or more teams from sharing units and their abilities in the same turn for multiple turns.

    1.2 - Resource Sharing Exploit
    Description: No player is permitted to share a single resource through the use of the Resource Sharing Exploit.

    Definition: Two players gifting and regifting a resource as well as cancelling it allow two teams to get use of the same resource that wouldn't be otherwise possible.

    Purpose: A resource is to be used by one team per turn, no exceptions.

    1.3 - Leader Sacrifices
    Description: No player is permitted to barter, gift, or otherwise allow another team to kill-off any of its units with the intent of creating a leader for either team.

    Definition: A player creating weak units or sending its out-of-date units after another team with the intent of helping that team create a leader.

    Purpose: To prevent great leaders from appearing between two allied players abusing the game system

    1.4 - Worker Sacrifices
    Description: No player is permitted to barter, gift, or otherwise allow another team to kill-off any of its units using those units with the capture ability with the intent of creating a worker for either team.

    Definition: A player creating weak units or sending its out-of-date units after another team with the intent of helping that team create workers.

    Purpose: To prevent workers from appearing between two allied players abusing the game system.

    1.5 - War Happiness
    Description: No player is permitted to declare war on anyone with the intent of generating some happiness amongst its populace.

    Definition: A player declaring war on another just to invoke a little extra happiness.

    Purpose: To prevent this 'feature' from being exploited and retain the spirit of the game.

    1.6 - Invalid Map Trading
    Description: No player is permitted to barter, gift, or otherwise trade any sort of map, whether it be a screen shot, minimap, hand drawing, or any other 'picture' of the in-game map, mini-map, or embassy screenshot before the requisite tech is discovered. Verbal/text descriptions are allowed, but coordinates are not.

    Definition: A player creating screen shots, drawings, or other depictions of any part of the in-game map before the requisite tech has been discovered.

    Purpose: To prevent the use of outside game elements to break the spirit of the game by allowing maps to be traded before they are allowed in-game.

    1.7 - Exchange of Contact
    Description: No player is permitted to barter, gift, or otherwise trade any sort of contact information until the requisite tech is discovered. A simple statement to team 'Z' that you live next to team 'Y' is allowable so long as no transactions are made or brokered between the two.

    Definition: A player trading anything for any location or contact information before allowed in-game.

    Purpose: To prevent the use of outside game elements to break the spirit of the game by allowing contact and location information to be traded before they are allowed in-game.

    1.8 Enjoining Teams
    Description: No player is permitted to barter, gift, or otherwise trade multiple cities with the intent of joining player to destroy another player and keep both players alive to survive to the end.

    Definition: A player trading one or more cities to another player for the purpose of either granting that player an advantage (premature contact with another civ, map information, etc.), or denying an aggressor the right of conquest.

    Trading and or gifiting cities is permitted, but each transaction shall be reviewed by the administrators of the game. If a specific transaction is considered to be in violation of the spirit of this law, then the traded/gifted cities may be forcibly returned to their original owner(s) or simply abandoned at the sole discretion of the administrators.

    As a general rule, the administrators will consider city gifts/trades that are temporary in nature (ie. only a few turns in duration) and those given/traded for the purpose of granting a player an advantage (premature contact, map information, etc.) or to deny another player the right of conquest to be against the spirit of this law.

    Purpose: To prevent the use of outside game elements to break the spirit of the game by allowing contact and location information to be traded before they are allowed in-game or to unfairly prevent a conquering civ from taking your cities.

    1.9 - Improper Use of Military Great Leaders
    Description: No player may use a Military Great Leader to rush a Great Wonder. (not applicable to C3C)

    Purpose: To prevent Military Great Leaders from being used in a manner inconsistent with their original purpose at the beginning of the game.

    Metagame Tricks

    2.1 - Reloading
    Description: No player is allowed to reload the game with the intent of altering the outcome of any event, combat, or other in-game result.

    Definition: Someone reloading the game when something happens that they don't like and wish to change. Playing the turn in a different order to alter the outcome of said happenings.

    Purpose: To prevent a player from replaying a turn until the most optimum outcome is achieved or otherwise increasing their odds of winning.

    2.2 - Save Manipulation
    Description: No player is permitted to use the PBEM savegames or other files to obtain information or alter any in-game element. This includes monitoring or altering memory while the game is loaded. Using MapStat is also prohibbited.

    Definition: An individual scanning or monitoring loaded files into memory or altering a file can obtain location information and more, they can even alter in game data.

    Purpose: To prevent the use of outside game elements to break the spirit of the game by allowing someone to outright cheat.

    2.3 - Zoomed Loading
    Description: No player is permitted to have their settings set to have the game zoomed out when loading a PBEM savegame.

    Definition: Loading the game when zoomed out can reveal information that you would not otherwise have access to.

    Purpose: To prevent the gathering of information against the spirit of the game.

    2.4 - Misleading through Renaming
    Description: No player is permitted to rename a unit or city with the intent of misleading or confusing opponents.

    Definition: Cities can be renamed to names of tech or sums of gold or anything else in an effort to not trade what that opponent agreed to. Units can be renamed to other units and appear to be something else entirely.

    Purpose: To prevent the misleading or confusion of another player through malicious use of in-game features.

    Game Mechanics tricks

    3.1 - Fortifying a boat/passenger
    Description: Similar to 3.1, except now addressing sea vessels. The sea vessel also would enjoy increased visibility during the next turn. A player can move the vessels the full allotment of movement points then “wake” the passengers and give them then “Fortify all” command which fortifies the sea vessel as well. It is allowed to use the “Fortify All” command on a vessel or a stack of vessels that has movement points left before the command was issued.

    Definition: A player may get the effect of a sea vessel being fortified prior to an attack when that vessel should have not have been able to fortify itself because it had no movement points to do so.

    Purpose: To prevent the illegal use of having increased visibility.

    3.2 - Hitting F1/back-forward to change production
    Description: It is possible to use F1 to go into city views and change production or rush items before a city has been reached in the pre-turn production queue.

    Definition: This can result in tech-enabled units and Wonders being completed the very turn the tech is researched, or production to be changed in response to an enemy's actions (like Walls if a stack moves toward a specific city and not another).

    Purpose: To prevent the unfair allocation of resources not intended to be used in a certain way on the previous turn and keep gameplay flowing within the spirit of the game.

    3.3 - Hitting F1/back-forward for double tile usage
    Description: It is possible to use F1 to go into city views and use the Forward/Back buttons to change the work force allocations before a city has been reached in the pre-turn production queue so that a tile can be used to used by 2 or more different cities in the same turn. .

    Definition: This can result in the possibility of a bonus tile being “shared” by 2 or more cities.

    Purpose: To prevent the unfair allocation of resources.

    3.4 - Using GoTo/Auto-Explore/Auto-Workers to get extra movement
    Description: The last team in the turn order can issue the “GoTo” command, and have a unit move twice before the next turn begins. This is very strong in war-time. Every Civ has that option, that's why it is stipulated that no one use go-to. Note: This does not provide an extra turn of movement, but rather advances the timing of that movement (ie. 2 moves in turn 1, and 0 moves in the final turn of the task). Similar results can be achieved with auto-explore and auto-workers.

    Definition: This can result in the last player to play in a given turn, the ability to move their units twice before another player could move in between

    3.5 - Chaining naval transports to quickly move land units across water
    Description: It is possible to wake a land unit at sea, and transfer it from one transport to another. Given enough ships, a chain can be created to instantaneously move units across bodies of water (by ending in port).

    Verdict: This is to be allowed.

    3.6 - Teleporting units gifting cities
    Description: A player can instantaneously transport units from any city back to their capital by simply gifting it to another player. This results in very weird strategy.

    Definition: This can result in a Civ’s units being transported out of harms way or to a new war front.

    Purpose: To prevent the unfair movement of units; especially during war time.



    Exceptions to some stardard rules:
    1. Since there are no AI's in the game breaking of any in game treaty is allowed. This will be suited to cunning scenario of Wars of Italy and should be kept in mind in situations where you are trading with gpt/resources or giving techs for peace etc..

    2. Attacking cities in the same turn war is declared is allowed. Keep in mind that this is NOT allowed against the Papal States.

    3. If you have units on somebody's land and going to take military action versus this civ next turn you must declare war at the end of current turn via "peace treaty re-negotiation". If it is impossible because "peace treaty" still running, you must DoW in forum.
    -exception: This rule is not in effect in cases where the war has been triggered by an attack towards Papal States. Example: Venice has troops in territority of Milan. Milan declares against Papal States. Venice declares to Milan because of the Pope's call and is allowed to attack at the same turn.

    4. Gifting/Trading of cities is allowed but maximum of 1 unit can be located in the city traded away.

    5. All war declarions are public and must be reported in the GPS post of that turn.

    These lists probably dosent exhaust all the possible exploits. In cases where rules are silent or controversial, game admin has the final word.


    Rules considering the special status of the Papal States:
    Spoiler :

    1. the Papal States can never be an aggressor in a war. Holy seat can fight wars with all their skills and capture cities and such but can never be the one declaring.
    2. Other states are not normally allowed to enter the LAND territory of Papal States if they are not at war with him. Also If you declare war to Papal States you are not allowed to cross the boarder at the same turn, if ingame war declation via "peace treaty re-negotiation" is impossible because of ongoing "peace-treaty", war must be declared on forums.
    3. Holder of the Papal States can grant free movement inside his territory for ONE player. This right can be withdrawn at any time and all unit within the boarders of Papal States must leave trough shortest route (even to enemy territory).
    -However the player with the right of free movement inside Papal States territory is not restricted by the normal war declaration rules against Papal States and can proceed with military action at the same turn if he declares to Papal States.
    4. All units of the Papal States are allowed to move to other states at anytime and formal (free) RoP is mandatory if the holder of holy seat so wishes. (rule #2 still aplies).
    -It is not allowed for the player controlling the Papal States to block movement/resources intentionally inside other players state.
    5. If some state does declares war to Papal States, pope will threaten all the other states (with eternal pain in hell) to declare war on the aggressor in the next turn. This will force states that are not already in war with Papal States to declare war either to Papal States or to the aggressor in their next turn.
    -ex. Naples declares war to the Papal States, all other states have to be in war with either Papal States or Naples in the end of their next turn.


    Rules for the pace of the game:
    Spoiler :

    1. Every player must post the save (as attachment) and a GPS post after their turn to the game thread. This will make it easier to be sure when the save is actually available for the player next in turn.
    2. Next player will have 48 hours to post his own gps and save starting from the post of the last player.
    3. If the player dosent respond in that time, game admin will have right to play his turn with minimum effort (spam enter).
    4. Some "vacations" are allowed but must be informed beforehand and replacement must be looked. If replacement is not found and vacation is longer than 96 hours admin will be play his turn with minimum effort.
    5. If player continues to brake these rules, after 5 offences,permanent replacement will be taken in and player kicked out of the game.


    This game will also have a feature I haven't seen much here: banning. Each participant can ban one civ out of the game to get some of the most used civilizations out.

    If you wish to be part of this game, please post the following information:
    1. Which citystate you wish to play
    2. Which civ you want to ban
    3. What timezone you are located (preferably in GMT +/- x and if you don't want to post it in forums post in PM)

    Picking of civilizations will start immediately after we have 6 players and 6 bans.

    I am more than happy to answer any questions. If you think some rules could be made better, please let me know

    Updated map as an attachment, take a look at it before picking your state, ban and civ.

    -Glasnost
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Glasnost

    Glasnost Prince

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2011
    Messages:
    544
    Aaaand...

    I will be playing obviously, but I will let you pick your states first. I will take the 6th remaining.

    My timezone is GMT+2 but I guess I need to take the player 1. Turn order after that will be based on timezones.

    And my ban is ... Persia. (I don't want to face those immortals :D)

    EDIT: RickFGS has stated in the other thread that he would like to play as Naples. Lets leave that to him if he still want it after chages.
     
  3. RickFGS

    RickFGS Deity

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    Lisboa, Portugal
    Here ya go...

    1. Which citystate you wish to play:
    Naples

    2. Which civ you want to ban:
    Spain

    3. What timezone you are located :
    GMT +0.00 Greenwhich Lisbon time

    That´s a lot of rules, i hope i don´t trip on one :rolleyes:

    Questions:
    -Coastal Blocking is allowed?
     
  4. Glasnost

    Glasnost Prince

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    I kind of banned Persia already so if you want to change it something else. :)

    Yes I probably was bit too :crazyeye: with all the stuff..

    Coastal Blocking is allowed but archer and longbowman are made amphibious to prevent it to be too powerfull.

    Lets see if we can get enough players.
     
  5. Bowsling

    Bowsling Deity

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    I'll take Venice, at -5 GMT, banning the The Maya.
     
  6. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Deity

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    OK, I take Sicily. Banned Civ: Iroquois.
    Gmt unknown.
    Question: Can Archer attack City from the sea?
     
  7. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

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    Yes - the OP mentions that Archer and LB are amphibious.
     
  8. Glasnost

    Glasnost Prince

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    Welcome all! Bans have been updated.

    Now we need just 2 players more. How about it Elephantium, you ready to take the task of Milan, Papal States or Florence? ;)
     
  9. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

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    Sorry. I think I'll have to pass on this one.
     
  10. Bengal Tiger

    Bengal Tiger Emperor

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    Toronto
    I've never played a PBEM game before, but I want to try it out. I will complete any game I start. I'd like to try Milan. Timezone is -5 GMT. By banning do you mean choosing a civ that no one can choose to become their new one? Sorry for asking, but I've never done this before.

    Also, how about any civ has a choice to declare war on the civ attacking Papal states or the Papal States themselves, to allow players to choose if they'd risk hellfire instead of it being chosen for them if they are unaligned.

    EDIT:Also, should I register on the sticky in the main section?
     
  11. Glasnost

    Glasnost Prince

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    Thank you for the feedback Bengal Tiger.

    Yes banning means exactly that you ban one civ that no-one can pick for this game. We are playing with the original civs found in conquest edition and Persia, Spain, Iroquois and Maya are already banned.

    Your version of the "Pope demand" rule is probably easier to understand and the older version was kind of different for people in different turnorder, so I have edited the rule to pretty much your suggestion:

    One more player needed yay. :goodjob: Interesting middle position of the Florence and the holy seat still open for the last player.
     
  12. Bengal Tiger

    Bengal Tiger Emperor

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    In that case I ban Egypt. Just to let you know, I will be unavailable for the next three days, but hopefully it will not reach my turn by then(you can put me last, just to be safe). Can I also put in a request for some fish or sugar located near the small hilly area surrounded by mountains?(near Milan) Any city built there would be utterly useless due to food limits. And I sent you my email.
     
  13. Glasnost

    Glasnost Prince

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    You didnt misread it. I edited it :)

    We still need 1 player so no worries about your 3 day absence.

    There is indeed some foodproblems with some parts of that territory but that is atleast partly compensated by the biggest amount of resources near the capital.
     
  14. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Deity

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    What this exception for? And who is "administrator"?
    It is hard to define when it is the case and when "fair gift". We may either alow only empty City gift or forbid any gift at all.
    This has to be clarified. "planning" only in mind and hard verify.
     
  15. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Deity

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    deleted
     
  16. Glasnost

    Glasnost Prince

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    Yes the city trading/gifting rules in the "spoiler" set is very hard to define. Thats why I wrote this one as an exception to the MSDG and Bowsling rules for this game:

    This is pretty much enough there needs to be said about citygifting, don't you think?

    About the first part of your post I need clarification. Where do you think there is a problem or do you think the whole blue part is rubbish?
     
  17. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Deity

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    OK.
    Blue part hard to understand. For the sake of simplicity better if you remove it.
    First part about "planning"... [You may not declare next turn after crossing border?]
    Also: how to declare if no troops in contact and if "peace treaty" still active?
     
  18. Glasnost

    Glasnost Prince

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    Blue part is removed now.

    The "planning" rule was made for situation where aggressor would move his force to the territory of the enemy but because there is no "retreat or declare" in pbem defender would be forced to declare if he would like to retaliate someway.

    But didn't think about the part about not being able to declare.. don't know how we could get this working, maybe we just have to remove it :(
     
  19. RickFGS

    RickFGS Deity

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    Why is it, that Naples is the only city pre-placed NOT next to a river?? I must protest, either place me near the river, or let me start with a settler instead of city so i can move, i rather lose 2/3 turns of production...
     
  20. Bengal Tiger

    Bengal Tiger Emperor

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    Naples geographically does not lie near a river, while all the others(except Palermo) do. You do have more bonus resources and room to expand than everyone else though.
     

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