Sarevok
Civ3 Scenario Creator
but it dosent bode well for scenario's
The Great War
- Thread starter Sarevok
- Start date
I have completed 2 turns now as the Germans. Leige, Brussles, Antwerp, Ypres, and Calais fell on turn one. I was playing it "straight". No attack thru Holland. The French counter attack almost retook Antwerp. I got Barbarosa in the defense with a 1 hit point elite machine gunner left after assults by 2 armies and numerous cavalry. I dug in on the Russian front while sending 6 units to form a skirmish line in the Italian Alps (by way of Austria). In hindsite, I was to sorely need those units in France.
On turn two I took Arras, Amiens, Caen, Verdun and falsely thought "this is too easy". Then I began my attack on Nancy. You know, you learn a lot about this war by your mistakes. I finally took it with after losing ~15 infantry. Now, what am I to hold those conquered cities with?
I did a draft on turn 1 and 2 of all excess population cities. However, next to 3 of the cities are 2 stacks of Frenchies 15-20 units high.
Sherman said "War is hell". He was just being optimistic though.
This scenario gets my vote though since it does a better job of recreating the opening Schliefen Plan than others that I have seen. Board games like "Guns of August" never could do it.
On turn two I took Arras, Amiens, Caen, Verdun and falsely thought "this is too easy". Then I began my attack on Nancy. You know, you learn a lot about this war by your mistakes. I finally took it with after losing ~15 infantry. Now, what am I to hold those conquered cities with?
I did a draft on turn 1 and 2 of all excess population cities. However, next to 3 of the cities are 2 stacks of Frenchies 15-20 units high.
Sherman said "War is hell". He was just being optimistic though.
This scenario gets my vote though since it does a better job of recreating the opening Schliefen Plan than others that I have seen. Board games like "Guns of August" never could do it.
Sarevok
Civ3 Scenario Creator
Im glad you have enjoyed it. Though its not really possible to take Liege in 1 turn unless u used cavalry assaults and AT.
froglegs,
Thank you for the interesting playtest-report.
Very positive to hear that you were able to
advance so far in the west.
I agree with you on "Guns of August", attacking
in the West was pointless.
"1914" despite it was well-researched, also
had the problem,that the German advance in
most cases was halted in Belgium.
Best Regards
Rocoteh
Thank you for the interesting playtest-report.
Very positive to hear that you were able to
advance so far in the west.
I agree with you on "Guns of August", attacking
in the West was pointless.
"1914" despite it was well-researched, also
had the problem,that the German advance in
most cases was halted in Belgium.
Best Regards
Rocoteh
Sarevok
Civ3 Scenario Creator
At Liege and Namur for a bit, then mons for a bit, then permanetly stalled around Ypres.
Happyman
We are Borg
What does bode mean is it spelling or a term?
Regards Happyman
Sarevok
Civ3 Scenario Creator
its not a good thing to have for scenario's
Happyman
We are Borg
Oh thanks
Adler17
Prussian Feldmarschall
Happyman, the German government was after the constitution of 1871, which is nearly the same constitution of 1848, a constitutional monarchy. The Reichstag had a big power. Much more than you think. So in reality it was indeed a parlamentary monarchy although the constitution was changed not before shortly before the end of WW1 to make this fact official.
The constitution of 1848/ 1871 was one of the most liberal of that time. However you´re right in so far the Reichstag couldn´t declare war. Nevertheless even the SPD supported the war and so even if there were an election in the Reichstag to declare war war would have been declared, too.
So Germany was in fact a democracy, although the constitution was not changed. Even the Kaiser was elected: on december 18th 1870 the president of the Reichstag pleased Wilhelm, king of Prussia, to become German Kaiser. He accepted. Because he didn´t want to be elected by the people, as he was indeed, he declared himself as German Kaiser a month later in Versailles, which is more known today, but not the whole story.
To summonrize: Germany was a democratical monarchy.
Adler
The constitution of 1848/ 1871 was one of the most liberal of that time. However you´re right in so far the Reichstag couldn´t declare war. Nevertheless even the SPD supported the war and so even if there were an election in the Reichstag to declare war war would have been declared, too.
So Germany was in fact a democracy, although the constitution was not changed. Even the Kaiser was elected: on december 18th 1870 the president of the Reichstag pleased Wilhelm, king of Prussia, to become German Kaiser. He accepted. Because he didn´t want to be elected by the people, as he was indeed, he declared himself as German Kaiser a month later in Versailles, which is more known today, but not the whole story.
To summonrize: Germany was a democratical monarchy.
Adler
Sarevok
Civ3 Scenario Creator
not under Wilhelm II
Adler17
Prussian Feldmarschall
Wilhelm II. was an ambivalent monarch indeed, but many things about him are only allied propaganda of ww1. He didn´t want the war. He tried to avoid the war. But he also acted indeed uncautious meaning other things then he said. But when he chose the Kanzler he ever took men who had the majority in the Reichstag.
Adler
Adler
Adler17
Prussian Feldmarschall
It was impossible that Adolf become power. Wilhelm was also an in Germany respected head of state.
Adler
Adler
Sarevok
Civ3 Scenario Creator
I agree with that, and I knew Wilhelm II didnt want the war to occur. I also know he was generally arrogant and felt like a supreme ruler. Though not an absolute ruler by the meaning, he wasnt very far from that.
Adler17
Prussian Feldmarschall
Indeed he saw himself as absolute ruler, but in reality he didn´t act like this, because he couldn´t. If he could WW1 would not have occured in 1914.
Adler
Adler
The Russian Naval building plan:
1911 The Russian tsar and the duma decided on
a naval building plan called "The big program".
It meant that the Russian Baltic Fleet 1930 should include:
24 Battleships
12 Armored Cruisers
24 Light Cruisers
108 Destroyers
36 Submarines
Rocoteh
1911 The Russian tsar and the duma decided on
a naval building plan called "The big program".
It meant that the Russian Baltic Fleet 1930 should include:
24 Battleships
12 Armored Cruisers
24 Light Cruisers
108 Destroyers
36 Submarines
Rocoteh
Rocoteh & Sarevok,
It sounds like you were a war gamers too. The problem in those games, Guns of August and 1914, were among other things, recreating the "French idiot rule". Plan XXVII cost the French more men than did Verdun according to Churchill. He gives data in his book "The World Crisis" concerning casulties. One interesting thing he talks about is the fact that whenever either the British or Germans attacked each other the casulity rate was 2:1 for the attacker versus the defender. However, whenever the Germans attacked the French, it was 1:1 because the French would launch counter attacks at the German attack thereby negating their defensive advantage.
By the way, in my game I softened up Leige with artillery and took it with cavalry. That was obvious to me to do. Armies took Brussles and Antwerp along with cavalry against weakened units.
It sounds like you were a war gamers too. The problem in those games, Guns of August and 1914, were among other things, recreating the "French idiot rule". Plan XXVII cost the French more men than did Verdun according to Churchill. He gives data in his book "The World Crisis" concerning casulties. One interesting thing he talks about is the fact that whenever either the British or Germans attacked each other the casulity rate was 2:1 for the attacker versus the defender. However, whenever the Germans attacked the French, it was 1:1 because the French would launch counter attacks at the German attack thereby negating their defensive advantage.
By the way, in my game I softened up Leige with artillery and took it with cavalry. That was obvious to me to do. Armies took Brussles and Antwerp along with cavalry against weakened units.
Hi,
Just crunch Germans as a French. You know the problem with this scenario. Whatever side u chose it winning side
I am planing to play 1.1 with cid level(never before). With Constant support of free infantry I have hard time trying to kill it to keep my upkeep low. May be that wonder infantry should be downgraded to lower level unit. Generally it may be good to split this scenario into 2 different scenarios. One for each side of conflict. It may be more balanced.
Several things I notice.
1) The tech "advance something line". should state that it allow recycle center and siege guns building.
2) I never been able to build cavalry for any side.
3) That's the point with no war weariness every body will choose demo"crazy".
4) Still u can not build any diffences on enemy side.
5) Reducing range of field artillery to 1 will add the balance. Since u can not take town by bombarding it from u territory. First u will need to move artillery in. It will solve capituring on a lot of towns in the single turn.
artillery was favorite weapon of Napoleon. I have build only it and against hundred of artilleries no body can withhold. I think increasing it cost and reducing power a little bit can reduce disbalance.
Just crunch Germans as a French. You know the problem with this scenario. Whatever side u chose it winning side
I am planing to play 1.1 with cid level(never before). With Constant support of free infantry I have hard time trying to kill it to keep my upkeep low. May be that wonder infantry should be downgraded to lower level unit. Generally it may be good to split this scenario into 2 different scenarios. One for each side of conflict. It may be more balanced.Several things I notice.
1) The tech "advance something line". should state that it allow recycle center and siege guns building.
2) I never been able to build cavalry for any side.
3) That's the point with no war weariness every body will choose demo"crazy".
4) Still u can not build any diffences on enemy side.
5) Reducing range of field artillery to 1 will add the balance. Since u can not take town by bombarding it from u territory. First u will need to move artillery in. It will solve capituring on a lot of towns in the single turn.
artillery was favorite weapon of Napoleon. I have build only it and against hundred of artilleries no body can withhold. I think increasing it cost and reducing power a little bit can reduce disbalance.
froglegs,
Yes I started with wargaming 40 years ago.
My friends that I used to play The Avalon Hill and
S.P.I. games with are all dead, but I have a very great
collection of wargames. It still happens that I set up
The World In Flames game and play a couple of turns.
I thought it was 2 months ago The Australian Design Group
signed a contract with Matrix games that finally shall
do a computer-version with a good AI available.
Very interesting what you mention about the French
counterattacking.
Looking forward to hear how your game progress
and if you will be able to reach Paris.
Best Regards
Rocoteh
Yes I started with wargaming 40 years ago.
My friends that I used to play The Avalon Hill and
S.P.I. games with are all dead, but I have a very great
collection of wargames. It still happens that I set up
The World In Flames game and play a couple of turns.
I thought it was 2 months ago The Australian Design Group
signed a contract with Matrix games that finally shall
do a computer-version with a good AI available.
Very interesting what you mention about the French
counterattacking.
Looking forward to hear how your game progress
and if you will be able to reach Paris.
Best Regards
Rocoteh
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