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The heal unit promotion defeats the improved tactics in Civ V.

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Drakken, Sep 24, 2010.

  1. Drakken

    Drakken Warlord

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    In general the AI is pretty bad at fighting battles. However, I am finding it incredibly difficult to plan for some battles vs the AI. I cannot tell when their units that are almost dead will suddenly heal and turn the battle in their favor.

    I find it incredibly unrealistic that in the midst of a battle the unit is healed from 1 HP all the way back to 10. It is practically like them getting a free unit. The units should have to back out of battle and heal normally. Am I the only one who feels this way? :rolleyes:
     
  2. totallylost

    totallylost Chieftain

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    i disagree. its not like they receive a promotion after every battle. Plus, it adds a little to the luck factor, which is kind of missing in this game.
     
  3. snoochems

    snoochems Prince

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    Yeah, it can be abused. I took a few soldiers with XP saved up and wandered through enemy territory, past other cities, straight to the capital, and just kept attacking and healing. Took capital, and they basically capitulated.
     
  4. Earthling

    Earthling Deity

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    Not being able to see experience and promotions of enemy units is a significant problem - if that was easy, then it falls to the player's shoulders to plan for battles and do things right. The actual tactic is maybe arguable but then again it's only one of a host of possible problems or benefits of the combat system anyway, like 1upt blocking or naval combat or so on.
     
  5. ShaqFu

    ShaqFu Requires Nanotechnology

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    If I'm not mistaken, it'll show up on the battle estimate. Even if it doesn't, it hardly makes that much of a difference.
     
  6. duxup

    duxup Prince

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    Well you can do it too ;) How often do you see that happen? I can't recall seeing it happen to me.
     
  7. DanPMN

    DanPMN Chieftain

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    Well, in Civ 4, you got healed after every promotion, albeit not fully with a single promotion.

    That system was more susceptible to "surprise" abuse because, if you saved up promotions, you could simultaneously promote your unit for a bunch of dramatic bonuses and also heal it fully.

    You can tell what sorts of bonuses the enemy has against you by carefully examining the battle preview. You'll be able to tell if they have a 25% rough terrain bonus, for example.

    Personally I think that 1 UPT blocking is much more realistic than giant stacks of doom. Giant stacks of doom ignored the reality of limited physical space. I was always amazed that a jillion riflemen, cannons, and cavalry could easily fit through a narrow mountain chokepoint. And Civ 5 allows you to move over other units, it's not a total block.
     
  8. Drakken

    Drakken Warlord

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    @totallylost -There is plenty of luck. I've had battles that were predicted to be a major victory and still lost my unit. You don't have to wait for promotions to happen in battle to do this. You can save promotions to manipulate a key battle in your favor.

    @duxup -It has happened to me quite often. You have to really watch closely to catch the AI doing it to you. They move so quick it is hard to notice. Just because I can use this "tactic" to my advantage does not mean it isn't a gamey trick.

    Since you can save promotions in this game units produced with an armory can walk into battle with 2 instant heals available. Cavalry type units with these promotions can walk into almost any kingdom and due to their speed take out a city in two turns before any response can be mounted.

    In fact I just pulled this off against a capital with 15 defense with a warrior garrison, an archer, and warrior next to the capital. 2 of my horseman rushed in and killed the warrior and archer on the turn i declared war. The third horseman attacked the city. I then healed all 3 horsemen. My friend was not able to inflict any casualties on his turn. I healed the wounded horse unit attacked with the 3 horsemen and the capital fell on turn 2. My friend didn't think these promotions were broken either until I pulled this maneuver on him. As he said that is impossible to stop or plan for. If he had a couple of spearmen it may have made a difference but I could have used swordsmen to the same effect ableit maybe one turn slower.

    It is simply not realistic for frontline units to heal on the same turn after they attack or just before they attack etc. Ihe biggest problem I have with this is that it makes it very difficult to calulate and plan out battles. Thus it also reduces the tactics and strategy involved in the game because this is totally unpredictable.
     
  9. spoooq

    spoooq Warlord

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    Your friends defences were weak. Next time he should not be so easily surprised.
     
  10. CaptainBinky

    CaptainBinky Warlord

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    An opponent walking into battle with two spare heal promotions available isn't so useful if I've used my promotions to give my units attack bonuses, heal surrounding units perks, and whatnot.
     
  11. Zhahz

    Zhahz PC Gamer

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    Yep, we can do it too. I've used it on occasion to bail out a pinned unit rather than lose it.

    I've seen the AI use the full heal a few times and was like DOH, crap, forgot about that ability, there goes my logistics promoted uber siege... /punts cat across the room

    It's a strategic option. I prefer to use promotions in other ways and I often see the AI back off and heal by resting, so it apparently likes to do the same.

    But there are times when a well timed full heal can be incredibly useful.

    I think it's cool that the AI sometimes uses the full heal option and punishes me for assuming I had things under control. Like thinking, so what if that musket with 1 health attacks, he'll just die...DOH
     
  12. stethnorun

    stethnorun Warlord

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    I love that in a game where people talk about how combat is so easy, here is someone who is saying they want options taken out so that it can be even easier. :roll eyes:
     
  13. Cyberian

    Cyberian Warlord

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    Actually I don't like the way it works atm.

    I find myself to value unexperienced units more than slightly experienced units especially in early warmongering.
    While the unit with 30 XP has no real bonus in attacking cities and in the field when terrain changed I can move an unexperienced swordsman to a defensive position inside enemy territory.

    He will get shot by the city/Archer and attacked by defenders but usually survive one turn through bonusses like GG and/or honour and the terrain of course. Next turn he kills an archer or wounded unit on open terrain and gets fully healed standing right next to the city.

    IMHO a human player can exploit that to a much greater extent than the AI
     
  14. Becephalus

    Becephalus King

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    I think the full heal promotion should just be removed. I don't see the point. It adds nothing to the game.

    And you definitely shouldn't be able to save promotions or social policies.
     
  15. Craywulf

    Craywulf Chieftain

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    I'm Drakken's friend, My city went down like paper in wind and I was not able to kill a single unit because he had the ability to heal his front line. despite my weak defenses I should have been able to kill a single unit in 2 turns. I never got a chance to do it because the Instant Heal promotion is far too effective and the fact you can save it makes it very exploitable.

    I think the Instant Heal shouldn't be as strong, and I also think it should be available on the 4th promotion. As it would symbolize a veteran troop getting his second wind.
     
  16. devilhunterred

    devilhunterred Prince

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    Yea 1upt blocking can be abused so easily it makes me feel shameful.

    You can use a few units to block off an entire invasion force on an ally and there's absolutely nothing the AI can do about it, especially when they are already dumb as ****.
     
  17. QuothTheRaven

    QuothTheRaven Chieftain

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    You can see an enemy's promotions when you mouse over him and it's giving the combat odds--just look for the little icons in the bottom left. I'm not sure if there's any way to see his experience, though.
     
  18. Scramble

    Scramble Warlord

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    I would like a way to see their promotions at peace time... but I can imagine why that could be hidden.
     
  19. gunter

    gunter King

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    The instant heal comes only when a promotion happens therefore I find it fair enough.

    We can maybe discuss how often the AI use such a bonus, to be honest, I have never seen the AI using it.
     
  20. Scramble

    Scramble Warlord

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    I have seen them use it real often. They end up using it very well too. Sure does complicate things when they use it a lot. I don't mind though, since it tends to mean that they sacrifice the promotion.
     

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