The hidden draw back of Philoshpical leaders

[beckdawg]

Seems to me that most people here consider the philo. trait to be one of the best. Perhaps it is just me but it seems to make you fall into a trap of having to build wonders. Wonders generate GP points and that's the main advantage of having the trait. On low levels that isn't much of a problem. However, on the higher levels it seems to set me back. I've been playing with Liz for awhile on prince. I find you get people trying to pick you off since you're defense isn't as strong because you spend countless turns making wonders.

Just as in previous games I think you fall into a trap trying to go after wonders. Sure there are some that are worth while. But with a philo. leader you need lots to effectively use your trait.

I think there are 3 combinations of traits that go really well together. Fin. and culture seem to logically go together if you want to play a religous game. Reason I say this is because religion brings in tons of money and when you're financial you can dominate the money aspect. As for Cultural, I think it goes well because you start taking over people's land peacefully.

If you want to play the GP game then it seems industrious and philo. work perfect together. You get the ability to quickly build wonders and get more GP from it.

The final strategy would be warmongering. Personally I think spiritual is a great help here. You can switch in and out of civics without the loss of production. So, you can have small tactical wars to take over certain areas instead of lengthy wars.

Granted your play style has a lot to do with your choices. But, I think philo. isn't as great as people make it out to be. I think Fin. is the best and then the rest of the traits depend on your particular play style. However, if you want to go for GP's I think fin and philo is a bad choice.

 

[Murky]

I don't think you need a lot of wonders to make good use of Philosophy but a few of the important early wonders can make a big difference.

 

[Petrucci]

With a few specialist tacted onto a few key wonders it seem to accomidate philosophical trait well. Perhaps im not getting the most out of philisophical as many, but I pop what seems to me, alot of great people during the course of the game. All I use is a great people farm and at least a couple of specialist in each city. Only wonders I really feel disappointed in if I don't get are Stonehenge or oracle, parthanon, great library and statue of liberty, maybe a couple others I can't pull out of the ole memory banks right now, the rest are usually specialists.

I'm not disagreeing with your choice in financial being better, because I feel financial does beat out in the end. Philo is powerful none-the-less!

 

[GoodSarmatian]

One of my favourite leaders is Alex.
Build your army while others build wonders. After capturing three big cities you will get many great people in a very short time.

 

[pigswill]

Common strategy I've come across in other people's threads is using buildings and specialists for GP. Library= 2 scientists=6gpp/turn is a common one though you do need enough food to support the specialists

 

[snipafist]

Common strategy I've come across in other people's threads is using buildings and specialists for GP. Library= 2 scientists=6gpp/turn is a common one though you do need enough food to support the specialists

Agreed. When I go philosophical, I rely on specialists far more than I rely on wonders to generate great people. It's a lot more "directable" that way, rather than the crapshoot you get when just building a lot of wonders in one city. Simply pile a lot of food into a city with a couple hammer-rich tiles nearby (a flood plain with some hills nearby is perfect for this), and make all the buildings that enable you to assign specialists, combine with the national epic and globe theatre (so your city won't get unhappy because it's so overloaded with people/food), and you're game to go.

 

[gdgrimm]

Yup. G-man strategies rely on specialists, not Wonders.

My current game, I'm focusing on a specialist based economy (not really a G-man strategy). But I'm getting plenty of G-men from 2 cities, one with 4 Merchants (Grocer+Market), the other with 4 Scientists (Library+Great Library). All my other cities are also running at least 1 or 2 specialists. It's still the Medieval era.

If I was seriously pursuing a G-man strat, I'd probably be running with 5-6 specialists in my 2 G-man cities, and almost no specialists anywhere else.

 

[InFlux5]

Agreed that wonders aren't necessary. However, as a Philosophical leader it's easier to pop an early Engineer and get a key wonder, which then snowballs into more great people, possibly another Engineer.

 

[mdm]

Philosophy is defintely not bound to wonders. Specialists are where the power comes in.

 

[Araqiel]

Philosophy is defintely not bound to wonders. Specialists are where the power comes in.

Thats very true in the mid game once you've unlocked caste system, or have the infastructure to support a specialist population.

Philosophical also has the important effect of making the turn you get your first GP (which is often from an early wonder) come much earlier. Since the earlier you can get a GP the more powerful it is its this effect that changes how I open with philosophical leaders. Building an early wonder is a priority for me most times with such a leader.

 

[malekithe]

Building an early wonder is a priority for me most times with such a leader.

Or just build a library and employ two scientists. You'll rack up those GPP three times faster...

 

[Brad55]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think there are any leaders that have both industrious and philosophical as trait combinations.

 

[Cam_H]

You're right. They're not available for the very reason beckdawg has outlined ("work perfect together").

I can imagine some modder has probably created a tribe that has these combined traits somewhere out there.

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

Industrial/Philo was eliminated for reasons of game balance, according to what I have read elsewhere

Seems to me that most people here consider the philo. trait to be one of the best.

Well, best is going to depend on what you measure against. I think Phil is a lot more interesting than Financial, because it presents more significant choices variation in the opening. Perhaps better said - it's easier to create a game which is unlike your previous game.

But to get that different feel, you definitely have to play the trait, which means planning your research path around the techs/buildings that enable specialists, running the specialists, working out in advance what you are going to use the next GP for, and so on.