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The Huns

Discussion in 'Leader Balance' started by void_genesis, Jan 1, 2015.

  1. void_genesis

    void_genesis Chieftain

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    I just played most of a Huns game, King level, small, continents, with the latest versions of the mods, no Civ4 diplomacy or health and plague. I ended up conquering the three other civs on my continent by about turn 120, and taking out five CS as well. I only had brief unhappy issues when annexing my new conquests as I was too poor to buy courthouses, but the Ekis everywhere made producing pretty fast (2-6 turns). I had discovered the other continent (instantly declared war on the two remaining civs) but it was pretty obvious I was just in for a clean up mission at this point. I razed all non-capitals as soon as I captured them. Does the faster raising trait still stand as it seemed to only take a couple of turns even for larger cities.

    The interesting thing was that I was still waging war very successfully around turn 200 with highly experienced brutes, archers and other free units from capturing barbarian camps. I had so many units relative to money that I upgraded very few of them. I think this captures the idea of the barbarian horde quite nicely.

    The only disappointment was that the end game was still a non-event. The AI still needs some mechanism to make it less passive in the face of a looming domination victory. Just making my troops weaker as I get closer doesn't seem to be enough.....difficulty is one thing, active engagement is another. At least if the AI had a decent navy that would make getting onto their continent more difficult, and actually allow them to come harass my cities when I declare war.
     
  2. Edaka

    Edaka Chieftain

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    Is it intended that you don't get culture for clearing camps with the might opener?
     
  3. void_genesis

    void_genesis Chieftain

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    Re the mechanism to give the AI a fighting chance....how about in the later game two or more AI with mutual borders who both feel threatened by a human player can decide to join forces and become one big AI where the larger subsumes the smaller. The new entity can get no penalties to culture or science based on the additional city number- they basically pool their resources for culture and research, maybe even give them a boost on merging. To my mind a conquest victory should finish with an uphill battle against more advanced units much of the time.
     
  4. Strec

    Strec Chieftain

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    I launch a game with Attila to test might but I fear for gold :

    UA : no gold but more units
    UB : no gold
    Policies : no gold but more units

    Anyone has an idea how to maintain my army for conquest in the early game? :p
     
  5. Funak

    Funak Chieftain

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    For starters, the UU is pretty much useless now, it got reduced to 150% city attack at some point and now you can't even bring down cities without walls with it anymore.
     
  6. Strec

    Strec Chieftain

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    I agree concerning towns but Might/Horse units may be good.

    In my opinion the main problem will be the gold. (I'm very lucky in my game I start in north on the map with many furs, so I would be rich enough to maintain an army).
     
  7. Strec

    Strec Chieftain

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    When we destroy a barbarian camp could we have a standard archer please? :p

    The first is on builded, the second is one captured.

    It's the same for warrior/brute, the barbarian is weaker and the upgrade is higher price, so the UA lost some interest if there are of no use :)
     

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  8. Funak

    Funak Chieftain

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    Brutes are supposed to be weaker warriors. Why there are different archers however, I have no idea
     
  9. Strec

    Strec Chieftain

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    If you give me the same brutes there were in the camp (with promotions) I'm ok :p
     
  10. Strec

    Strec Chieftain

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    My last remarks concerning the huns :

    UA :
    • Units capture with the mounted melee is powerful.
    • Grassland tiles acquisition is powerful.
    • Capturing barbarians in camps have few interests, but the 2 other features balance it

    UI :
    • Nothing special. Correct.

    UU :
    • It come to soon. At this time you don't have the correct units to finish the town grabing (Swordsmen or Tiremes) and you are very far from the courthouse so interest in capturing cities as earlier seems limited. I think it would be better if it was a replacement of the catapult
    • It's a unit you can't really XP (only on towns) so I think it would be more powerful.

    In conclusion I'm not convinced by this UU because you are quickly stopped by gold and unhappiness if you conquer cities so early and perhaps it's better to XP some archers to update in composite bowmen to begin conquest just before Medieval Era (with Courthouse, Composite Bowmen and Villages ).
     
  11. Funak

    Funak Chieftain

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    I kinda disagree with this, the UI is really powerful.

    It is a catapult replacement, the problem however is that the catapult is pretty awful, and the battering ram is pretty much just a melee catapult(with some additional drawbacks)
     
  12. Strec

    Strec Chieftain

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    I agree with UI, it's a very powerful UI depending of the map I think. I play Communitas map and there are a lot of lake and rivers, reducing it's power.

    The problem is that at this time in the game you will not have enough happyness and gold to support multiple puppets (specially if you start with Authority).

    edit: corrected
     
  13. Strigvir

    Strigvir Chieftain

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    You meant Authority.
     
  14. Funak

    Funak Chieftain

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    In my experience the Battering-ram is severely underperforming. It seems like the AI realizes that as well as I still haven't seen the AI Attila bring them to war.

    They currently have 10 CS and a 150% bonus vs cities, in vanilla they had 10 CS with a 300% bonus vs cities.
     
  15. TheUnholyPotato

    TheUnholyPotato Chieftain

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    This is particularly striking when you realize that a catapult has a 100% bonus against cities. And it is ranged, meaning that it is more effective against units and does not take damage when attacking s city.
     
  16. Funak

    Funak Chieftain

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    The battering ram also have a 25% penalty on defense :D
     
  17. Strec

    Strec Chieftain

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    You can cry when you are hunting barbarian camps and conscription gives you a battery ram. It will be useable, ..... later, ...... maybe ... :D
     
  18. Funak

    Funak Chieftain

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    It got buffed now, so it is actually useful for attacking cities. And it upgrades decently as well, turning into a trebuchet with cover 2.
     
  19. Strec

    Strec Chieftain

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    See that yes, got a city with. But their are really low on defense on melee. I clearly prefer xp soon 2 archers with melee unit between city and them.
     
  20. Der_Zorn_gottes

    Der_Zorn_gottes Chieftain

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    You can do really brutal things with them.
    My settings were:
    Immortal
    Huge map (12 civs)
    Inland sea
    Marathon
    Domination at 303, and it would have taken considerably less turns if I had played more concentrated and assembled the second army sooner.
    I did not build a single unit in this game. My starting warrior defeated a archer camp, and then the ball started rolling. near the end I got a couple of rams from Authority.
    It was the worst capital I ever had in civ V. I was working unimproved tiles most of the time, but it didn`t even matter the slightest.
    No AI reached medieveal.
    I had a huge amount of culture from city razing, and bullying city states. Enough to fill Authoroty and have 2 picks in Progress.
    Sure it was Marathon speed, so I extended my advantage to the most, but it was still amazing.

    Final turn picture of most pathetic capital ever:
    Spoiler :

     

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