The Huns

That's why the UU doesn't need horses, the horse you train already has its own horse to ride on. Plus a human on top of all that. It's pretty scary.
 
The Eki does have some problems with location but I think it's still decent. Maybe removing the requirement for not building by water would fix it.

Well even I don't like building Kasbahs on resources other than plantations and maybe camps or pastures. It makes absolutely little sense to build in on mine or quarry resources by even mid game. And chopping down a forest or jungle tile usually doesn't make sense after universities and workshops. This only gets compounded if you take Rationalism (for villages), Imperialism (for farms) or Commerce (for mines and lumber mills).

I think knocking out the water limitation could be interesting - it's certainly worth a try for one patch to see how it turns out. If it's overpowered, it's overpowered. If it isn't, then yay. But yeah, it's the adjacency bonus that's getting killed most of the time, I feel. I can SOMETIMES manage a triangle...but rarely better.
 
I think knocking out the water limitation could be interesting - it's certainly worth a try for one patch to see how it turns out. If it's overpowered, it's overpowered. If it isn't, then yay. But yeah, it's the adjacency bonus that's getting killed most of the time, I feel. I can SOMETIMES manage a triangle...but rarely better.

Think the most I've ever managed is getting a +2 bonus from adjacency, and that's really rare.

Letting them be build near freshwater would completely change the improvement, probably making it way too strong (at least when you consider the fact that Autocracy have the ability to add +3 science on all UIs). I would try messing around with the yields instead before I changed the core concept of the improvement.
Maybe letting it get a yield-bonus or two in-between ancient and industrial (where it gets its first ones currently) possibly reducing yield it gets from tech later on.
 
I think knocking out the water limitation could be interesting - it's certainly worth a try for one patch to see how it turns out. If it's overpowered, it's overpowered. If it isn't, then yay. But yeah, it's the adjacency bonus that's getting killed most of the time, I feel. I can SOMETIMES manage a triangle...but rarely better.

Taking away the water limitation would take away what makes the unique improvement, well, unique. I agree with Funak and think that the Eki only needs to get some yield bonuses before industrial. Obviously the map affects the number of non-freshwater grassland/plains tiles, but I have had no problem getting adjacency bonus on continents map. I actually managed to get a +3 adjacency just few days ago, but that is obviously a rarity. Still, I consider an eki with +1 adjacency a solid tile in ancient or classical era. At the early eras it is an easy choice to work tiles that give you +1 food, +2 production and +1 culture in addition to what you get from the plains/grassland tile itself. The only problem is that they don't get better until late reneissance era and the buffs they get aren't exactly impressive (+1 gold @ economics (late ren.), +1 food @ fertilizer (late ind.), +2 production @ ecology (early inf.)). This means that a basic forest tile buffed by herbalist, university, workshop and lumber mill is probably a better tile than +1 adjacent Eki from medieval to atomic era. After all, a forest tile gets +1 food, +3 production and +1 science in addition to what a grassland/plains tile would normally give you and an additional production at industrialization (to the non-freshwater lumbermill) Therefore, I'd say the Eki needs to get a meaningfull yield-bonus at medieval era.
 
The Eki is not intended to carry the Huns. It is intended to jump start military production for UU based conquest pre-medieval era.

Well in that case, what is supposed to carry the huns? The unique ability sure doesn't help you close out a game and the unique unit, while decent for a war or two does absolutely not win you the game.
 
My experience with the Huns is as such: Ekis are nice when you have a big empty flatland field between cities. Decent food, lots of production and culture. Good improvement.

The UA has been very useful, I've had the #1 military throughout most of the game. I built a striking force of about 4 horsemen with the intent of using them to demand tribute from city-states going Authority, but what I actually ended up doing with them was fighting off 3 barbarian hordes attacking nearby city-states--and getting a bunch of free units in the process. Unit maintenance is through the roof, but I have an army that nobody on the planet can match in the classical/early medieval, which is quite useful when playing on epic speed.

The horse archer, on the other hand, feels pretty underwhelming. Yeah, it's a bit stronger than the skirmisher, but the free promo feels pointless--this is not a unit you want attacking cities. I feel like it could use a bump.
 
Random thought: what if horse archers had the "pillage without expending movement" benefit? That might help them feel a little more distinct.
 
Well the Huns are benefitting greatly from the increased Barb Spawns. I found myself having to gift the excess units to CSs to keep me from going over the Unit Cap.

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Yup, huns are extremely strong right now. Plenty of expendables join you in your conquest...it's like you don't even need to build an army yourself.
 
Yup, huns are extremely strong right now. Plenty of expendables join you in your conquest...it's like you don't even need to build an army yourself.

They've always been like that to be honest. Even before the decrease of supply cap and increased number of barbarians I often got so many units that I really was forced to gift them to city states. I don't think the changes have made the Huns any better. I mean, yeah, you get more early game city state allies but on the other hand your army will consist mostly of brutes, hand-axes and archers without access to experience or morale from buildings in your cities, which won't do much against the spearmen, horsemen, skirmishers and swordsmen that other major civilizations have. I've always had the problem with the Huns that I haven't really been able to build the horsemen and horse archers that I want to have as Attila and with the miniscule supply cap the problem is even worse.
 
You could just delete those extra units for spare gold. And besides, barbs also tech up so eventually, you'll get the better units as well. Also, try to look for the barb hordes quests, sometimes there will be uniques spawning and you'll upgrade your swarms more effectively that way. As Attila, army maintenance is actually a bother, especially early on. So getting a religion to help with that is absolutely necessary (and possibly going into piety). And honestly, when I hit the supply cap, I start throwing the melees at enemy cities (especially capitals) just because I do it as a tribute to angry (birds) barbs.
 
They're very strong. Eki would probably be my choice for best UI, 2f 2p 1c tiles are great in late Ancient, and then once you get Chivalry in early Medieval (which is a really strong tech that you'll want to beeline because it works with Attila's UA anyways) you get 3f 3p 1c which is fantastic, and adjacency bonuses only improve things. Their UA is also really nice when it comes to combat, oftentimes in war you'll capture a unit which your opponent will then have to waste a bunch of turns killing, and if not, hey, free unit. Usually I just let them heal up and use them as cannon fodder anyways since they start with 0 promotions but on rare occasions you can steal a UU.

In comparison, Horse Archers are pretty weak since you'll want to give priority to Horsemen that can benefit from your UA and capture stuff. They're not the worst UU but definitely below average, just one generic promotion and a couple CS/RCS above Skirmishers, which aren't an amazing unit for their time anyways (compared to Horsemen, which come half an era earlier and are slightly cheaper, Skirmishers have 12/10 CS versus 15). And no strategic requirements, but Horses are the one strategic that I almost never have issues with and unlike Egypt's UU they come at a time when you'll probably have your Horses improved anyways.

Very good UA, great UI, mediocre UU, overall I'd say it comes out to one of the best civs but probably not overpowered.
 
Skirmishers have 12/10 CS versus 15)
I think horsemen only have 14 CS, and skirmishers are actually cheaper, not the other way around. I would love to build horse archers, but I can't get to mathematics with the Huns before reaching my supply cap.
 
I think the huns are very fun to figure out the early game for.
Anyways, if you want to actually use horse archers, I think the best strat is to build 2 chariot archers, tech to masonry to build terracotta army, try to finish mathematics right before finishing the wonder and upgrade only one of the chariot archers!
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This is the kind of start I can achieve fairly regularly. 4 horse archers by t73 is unstoppable. It wasn't that long ago that I had next to no army that prompted an invasion attempt by pacal. but, all I had to do was pop out a horseman and make an army of my own out of his. I even had the time to build temple of artemis!
 
I'm glad to hear that the Horse archer is considered low tier. The mod I am helping with plans to replace the accuracy promotion with a special "Steppes archer" promotion which allows the unit to automatically fire on a random adjacent unit if it has no moves left, but hasn't attacked that turn, essentially a conditional 5th move.
 
Honestly they went from being the worst UU to okay. Remember how bad they were when accuracy added to city damage? Now it's at least a legit promotion path.
 
While its not exciting, free accuracy and extra strength are really powerful bonuses. You can get tier 4 promotions at 60 XP instead of 100, that means the promotions come about 20 turns earlier, and extra damage is extra damage
 
Honestly, the main strength of the Hun UU is that it is available during the time where horsemen are at their strongest and that they cost no strategic resources. In that sense they're a lot like the Iroquois Mohawk, except unlike the Mohawk where you have nowhere to spend that iron you're saving, here you can use your extra horses to stock up on Horsemen to benefit from your UA.

Are they the strongest UU in the game? Not at all. But they are powerful, spammable and they can bring down cities in a time before castles.
 
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