The IMF, Rubles and the Russian Economy

But what are they buying that it is worth reducing domestic economic activity for? That can’t work long term.
What domestic economic activity? Break it down by sector and you see what gets hurt is the least strategically important stuff. They’re pursuing a strategy to shore up the money supply. Yeah you eat some slowed growth but… sometimes you have to. They deal with it. Meanwhile you keep the wheels turning. Yes there’s a limit on how much you can do it. Yes there’s general downward pressure on interest rates. Generally though economic planners understand that a lot of it is gravy that can be cut if other needs are predominant.
 
The US federal reserve decides to raise interest rates.

The EU central bank does the same, because they do not want capital to flow to the USA, and the Euro to depreciate.

The UK shameless follows along, because it does not want capital to flow to the USA or EU; and the
politicians here regard pleasing the bankers as more important than considering the domestic economy.

Then Russia follows along with rate rises.

I suspect this reflects the legacy of the western indoctrination of Russian banking after the USSR fell,
so their bankers cannot think outside the model; rather than being related to the war with Ukraine.

The only big country cutting, rather than raising, interest rates seems to be China.

Although India are being more cautious.
 
As a result of Putin's currency controls, Russian banks and exporters will be increasing their holdings of Rubles, while decreasing their holdings of foreign currency. As the Ruble will continue to lose value towards the Dollar, Euro, Yen and Yuan, it becomes more expensive for Russian businesses to import foreign goods (will be passed on to the Russian consumers in the form of price hikes).

Russias largest bank Sberbank reported a collapse of 78% of their profits in 2022 compared to 2021, as a result of sanctions and Russian Government intervention.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/03/09/business/russia-sberbank-profit-plunge-sanctions/index.html
 
....... Yeah according to the IMF in 2022
Kinda weird how Putin went to brag about Russia economic world position without mentioning that little tiny bit of information, I suppose the avg Russian will continue to believe

"Russia becomes Europe’s biggest economy.” That’s the headline that Kremlin-funded RT’s editors put on a story they ran Aug. 4. The story went on to trumpet that “Russia was among the world’s five largest economies and the largest in Europe in terms of purchasing power parity (PPP) as of the end of 2022
“In these terms Russia has just overtaken Germany to become the fifth wealthiest economy in the world and the largest in Europe worth $5.3 trillion,” the report said, without citation.
 
Russia raising interest rates to strengthen the ruble has to be one of the dumbest economic moves on its face. It makes me wonder if there’s more to the story I don’t know, or if their kleptocrat state has so failed to find qualified economists.
Or may be to combat inflation? Raising interest rate is... one of primary tools for this.
 
....... Yeah according to the IMF in 2022
Kinda weird how Putin went to brag about Russia economic world position without mentioning that little tiny bit of information, I suppose the avg Russian will continue to believe
A tank in every Russia garage before long, yes... Unless the Ukranians manage to blow them up first. But then that creates a new demand for building even more tanks, further enriching the Russian public, so it's all good...
 
A tank in every Russia garage before long, yes... Unless the Ukranians manage to blow them up first. But then that creates a new demand for building even more tanks, further enriching the Russian public, so it's all good...
Don’t worry, there will always be a cool war for people to spend money on.
 
What domestic economic activity? Break it down by sector and you see what gets hurt is the least strategically important stuff. They’re pursuing a strategy to shore up the money supply. Yeah you eat some slowed growth but… sometimes you have to. They deal with it. Meanwhile you keep the wheels turning. Yes there’s a limit on how much you can do it. Yes there’s general downward pressure on interest rates. Generally though economic planners understand that a lot of it is gravy that can be cut if other needs are predominant.
I understand the metaphor and your hunch but I would like to see it broken down, because I don't believe it. These are not competent political actors, why should we give them the benefit of the doubt in matters of economics? Loads of countries are making economic errors all the time, with better governments.
 
Or may be to combat inflation? Raising interest rate is... one of primary tools for this.
Inflation itself has minimal real economic costs, but fighting inflation by reducing investment does have real economic costs. You want to increase supply when there's inflation. If you want to target sectors, then rationing and price controls make sense for a wartime economy.
 
Inflation itself has minimal real economic costs, but fighting inflation by reducing investment does have real economic costs. You want to increase supply when there's inflation. If you want to target sectors, then rationing and price controls make sense for a wartime economy.
Well, I'm not an economist, but as far as I understand the interest rate is a regulatory mechanism by country's central bank. Therefore there must be circumstances where it makes sense to raise or lower it. If you look at the list of interest rates in different countries, you can see that Russia's current one is pretty high, but far from the highest.


Most common explanation for raising it, is fighting inflation. If you believe it's always a bad measure and a sign of economic incompetence, I'd expect to see zero or close to zero rates in almost all countries. Instead, the rate in Brazil, Turkey, Egypt, Ukraine, etc., is higher than in Russia.
 
Inflation itself has minimal real economic costs, but fighting inflation by reducing investment does have real economic costs. You want to increase supply when there's inflation. If you want to target sectors, then rationing and price controls make sense for a wartime economy.
Inflation has social costs(real economic costs for real economic citizens) which are inseparable from real economic costs macro. Every repurposed life hour has to come out of something, even if it's not being measured or tracked. Right? The exchange rate of those life hours seems to be the lived economy.
 
Well, I'm not an economist, but as far as I understand the interest rate is a regulatory mechanism by country's central bank. Therefore there must be circumstances where it makes sense to raise or lower it. If you look at the list of interest rates in different countries, you can see that Russia's current one is pretty high, but far from the highest.


Most common explanation for raising it, is fighting inflation. If you believe it's always a bad measure and a sign of economic incompetence, I'd expect to see zero or close to zero rates in almost all countries. Instead, the rate in Brazil, Turkey, Egypt, Ukraine, etc., is higher than in Russia.

The high interest rate in Brazil is contentious, the current government wants to significantly lower it but doesn't have the power to remove the head of the Central Bank
 
Higher rates also attract foreign capital that wants more interest income. With US rates going up, some EU nations want to raise rates to keep EU money in the EU. Higher rates in Russia will not likely attract western capital though.
 
Well, I'm not an economist, but as far as I understand the interest rate is a regulatory mechanism by country's central bank. Therefore there must be circumstances where it makes sense to raise or lower it. If you look at the list of interest rates in different countries, you can see that Russia's current one is pretty high, but far from the highest.


Most common explanation for raising it, is fighting inflation. If you believe it's always a bad measure and a sign of economic incompetence, I'd expect to see zero or close to zero rates in almost all countries. Instead, the rate in Brazil, Turkey, Egypt, Ukraine, etc., is higher than in Russia.

Interest rates as a regulatory mechanism by a country's central bank are somewhat akin to the proverbial hammer-wielder that views every problem as a nail.
 
I understand the metaphor and your hunch but I would like to see it broken down, because I don't believe it. These are not competent political actors, why should we give them the benefit of the doubt in matters of economics? Loads of countries are making economic errors all the time, with better governments.
The question is "what is an economic error?" You see we have this assumption that the way successful countries do things is so successful because it's a superior system for procedural or mechanical reasons. Our production methods are superior because of the superior motivations spurred on by capitalist productivity, or our markets allow goods to reach the greatest number of people possible in the shortest time possible, or - and this is the relevant one here - our interest rates are low enough to allow new economic activity to be continuously generated by fresh investments. But the problem is that these dogmas are not actually particularly useful in and of themselves. If low interest rates are always good, why ever raise them? Shouldn't you always want them to be zero, or as near-zero as is sustainable?

This is the thought process because the expectation is that all new or re-investment is useful. But here's the thing: it really isn't. Let's say you know that the economy needs an additional 5 million bushels of grain, but since you're price controlling or rationing, grain is not actually the most profitable new investment. Private investors are not going to make up that difference for you unless you incentivize them. But how do you incentivize them? Well you can offer rate cuts for grain businesses specifically or structure your subsidies so that they attract new investment and incentivize additional production. But let's also say that your money situation is not great, and the bean counters tell you that the grain subsidies you want are too complex and be more expensive than they're worth. Let's also say there's about thirty other major goods you need to try to plan for or control. Let's say that your foreign investment rates haven't been that good anyway, even though your trade with China has increased like a hundred times. And finally let's say you expect that activity with China to continue, because you're able to underwrite almost everything with your energy exports to the west anyway.

With energy exports, you're covered for western currency reserves. With higher interest rates, you're taking control of the money supply. And with trade with China, you're still covering your deficits, and Chinese stuff is cheaper than the stuff you've replaced with it.

All this is "bad" for the economy to the ambiguous Western Investment Clubs (the ones that aren't Putin's fanclubs), but on a macro level it's completely manageable.

No, most statesmen are generally not great economic geniuses, but there's not a lot here to be "genius" at. States have very, very few levers to really control the economy. Usually states raise interest rates because they have to for money supply reasons. Most activity is out of their hands anyway. And true enough, they can easily lose control and spiral out. But part of the reason for that is because money policy is kind of the only real lever here. The other lever is hurting people and pillaging.

The other reason is they're trying to signal overheating, following on the heels of their super aggressive growth projections for next year. Raised rates is a totally reasonable response to this pathology. Even if the underlying assumptions can be questioned, who can really say for sure?
Higher rates also attract foreign capital that wants more interest income. With US rates going up, some EU nations want to raise rates to keep EU money in the EU. Higher rates in Russia will not likely attract western capital though.
Yeah, well, the only reason that happens is because the US issues new bonds. So you're right that this could be the strategy, because these interest rates are the exact mechanism Russia can use to extract capital from its "orbit."
 
Well, I'm not an economist, but as far as I understand the interest rate is a regulatory mechanism by country's central bank. Therefore there must be circumstances where it makes sense to raise or lower it. If you look at the list of interest rates in different countries, you can see that Russia's current one is pretty high, but far from the highest.


Most common explanation for raising it, is fighting inflation. If you believe it's always a bad measure and a sign of economic incompetence, I'd expect to see zero or close to zero rates in almost all countries. Instead, the rate in Brazil, Turkey, Egypt, Ukraine, etc., is higher than in Russia.
Yeah it’s just that there’s different causes for inflation. Raising interest rates is great if the inflation is being driven by lending, let’s say banks are competing to capture growth but the system is employing everyone and everything.

But if your inflation is occurring because your real economy shrank, you are going to need investment in the things that will grow it back. Generally this is at least somewhat lower hanging fruit as you are trying to reemploy and an existing economic pipeline.

So you could raise rates but you’re hampering your market forces from investing in fixing the reason for your inflation. Ideally in that situation if the bank raises rates, the government is stepping to finance investment extra mucho much in solving bottlenecks.

You’re not wrong to connect the “we have inflation so rates should go up, and stabilizing a currency is an added benefit.” And while Russia occupies Ukraine I’m “ok” with Russian policy being in error if it moves the needle to ending the war sooner, it’s a good thing.

But also I think like most of us, we don’t want to see you guys suffer either. There’s no good in that.
Inflation has social costs(real economic costs for real economic citizens) which are inseparable from real economic costs macro. Every repurposed life hour has to come out of something, even if it's not being measured or tracked. Right? The exchange rate of those life hours seems to be the lived economy.
Those hours are still debited by the cause of inflation whether or not the pain manifests as inflation. Except the fatigue of learning new prices, which is much higher and much lower depending on if the inflation is driven by your growing wages (1960s) or by monopolistic price gauging in a supply shock (today).

But that annoyance is real and for some people’s costs them for real-real, outside that they are now poorer, which was going to happen whether prices rose or a third of their family (1/3 chance for themself) got laid off instead. Because the root of the inflation is the pain, and inflation a way to pay for that pain.
 
The question is "what is an economic error?" You see we have this assumption that the way successful countries do things is so successful because it's a superior system for procedural or mechanical reasons. Our production methods are superior because of the superior motivations spurred on by capitalist productivity, or our markets allow goods to reach the greatest number of people possible in the shortest time possible, or - and this is the relevant one here - our interest rates are low enough to allow new economic activity to be continuously generated by fresh investments. But the problem is that these dogmas are not actually particularly useful in and of themselves. If low interest rates are always good, why ever raise them? Shouldn't you always want them to be zero, or as near-zero as is sustainable?

This is the thought process because the expectation is that all new or re-investment is useful. But here's the thing: it really isn't. Let's say you know that the economy needs an additional 5 million bushels of grain, but since you're price controlling or rationing, grain is not actually the most profitable new investment. Private investors are not going to make up that difference for you unless you incentivize them. But how do you incentivize them? Well you can offer rate cuts for grain businesses specifically or structure your subsidies so that they attract new investment and incentivize additional production. But let's also say that your money situation is not great, and the bean counters tell you that the grain subsidies you want are too complex and be more expensive than they're worth. Let's also say there's about thirty other major goods you need to try to plan for or control. Let's say that your foreign investment rates haven't been that good anyway, even though your trade with China has increased like a hundred times. And finally let's say you expect that activity with China to continue, because you're able to underwrite almost everything with your energy exports to the west anyway.

With energy exports, you're covered for western currency reserves. With higher interest rates, you're taking control of the money supply. And with trade with China, you're still covering your deficits, and Chinese stuff is cheaper than the stuff you've replaced with it.

All this is "bad" for the economy to the ambiguous Western Investment Clubs (the ones that aren't Putin's fanclubs), but on a macro level it's completely manageable.

No, most statesmen are generally not great economic geniuses, but there's not a lot here to be "genius" at. States have very, very few levers to really control the economy. Usually states raise interest rates because they have to for money supply reasons. Most activity is out of their hands anyway. And true enough, they can easily lose control and spiral out. But part of the reason for that is because money policy is kind of the only real lever here.

The other reason is they're trying to signal overheating, following on the heels of their super aggressive growth projections for next year. Raised rates is a totally reasonable response to this pathology. Even if the underlying assumptions can be questioned, who can really say for sure?

Yeah, well, the only reason that happens is because the US issues new bonds. So you're right that this could be the strategy, because these interest rates are the exact mechanism Russia can use to extract capital from its "orbit."
An economic error in this case is destabilizing aggregate supply during a war that requires domestic production of ordnance. Wars are in some ways well measured between opposing economic engines seeing who can put produce, tech, and coordinate. You want to maximize resource employment. It’s the time to eat into all your slack. Maximize aggregate supply. Raising rates causes loans to go bad, people lose their employment, production slows. It has to be met with new financing.

That new financing has to come from somewhere.

Here are sources of financing:
1) bank loans
2) existing private savings
3) net exports
4) deficit spending

Raising rates makes bank loans more expensive that’s the point. So that’s out. It increases the value of keeping savings savings, so that’s out. It reduces net exports so that’s out.

So you better hope the government spends to make up the difference.

But the government is busy with a war and they get their economic instructions from their experts, many of whom are working in the central bank who presumably believe the problem is inflation and a weak currency.
 
But that annoyance is real and for some people’s costs them for real-real, outside that they are now poorer, which was going to happen whether prices rose or a third of their family (1/3 chance for themself) got laid off instead. Because the root of the inflation is the pain, and inflation a way to pay for that pain.
In one situation, you are poorer with repurposed and reclaimed life hours. In the other, it's the company store sixteen tons and all. It's not an annoyance level difference?
 
In one situation, you are poorer with repurposed and reclaimed life hours. In the other, it's the company store sixteen tons and all. It's not an annoyance level difference?
That's optimistic. Let's give it some math, I'm optimistic.
 
How much poorer is the math. Poorer and home with your kids, with time to use the bad laundry detergent, the hard to cook ingredients, the time to change your own tires, learn new skills, that is just simply different than poorer while working overtime, missing baseball games and paying somebody else to watch your kids because you, or both* of you, are gone. That's not math, that's qualitative. Thriving, or not. Destitute steals your time, too. Are we talking destitute?

*lucky you, singles don't make it work in these situations nearly as well, and that'd be math again.
 
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