The Immortal Challenge Lineup - Game #11 - Germany

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The Immortal Challenge Lineup - Game #11

Welcome to the Immortal difficulty version of the biweekly The Deity Challenge Lineup-event.

ICL Game #11
You - Germany
Total Civilizations - 8
Total City States -16
Map – Pangea
Settings – Quick quick combat(turn it back on if you would like). Raging barbarians is turned OFF. Everything else is set to default.
Game Version -
Downloadable Content – G&K, BNW, Conquest of the New World Deluxe, Genghis Khan's Mongolia, Harold Bluetooth's Denmark, Isabella’s Sapin and Pachacuti's Incan Empire, Kamehameha's Polynesian Empire, Nebruchadnezzar's Babylon, Sejong The Great's Korea, Wonders of the Ancient World. The map pack are intentionally excluded.

Starting location:

Spoiler :


Schedule:

Game #1 - July 23th as Japan
Game #2 - August 6th as Poland
Game #3 - August 20th as Ottomans
Game #4 - September 3th as Arabia
Game #5 - September 17th as Brazil
Game #6 - October 1th as Denmark
Game #7 October 15th as Songhai
Game #8 October 29th as Sweden
Game #9 November 13th as India
Game #10 November 26th as Russia
Game #11 December 10th as Germany

Information & rules cut, pasted and slightly changed from The Deity Challenge Lineup:
Spoiler :
All games in this series will be set to IMMORTAL difficulty. User civilizations, maps, and opponents will change each game, but the pace will always be set at standard and the starting era will always be ancient. We will try for a variety of starts, and not just having a crazy warmonger as your next door neighbor (although there will be that too). This isn't a competition so there will be no predefined victory conditions. New challenges in the series will be posted every other Wednesday.

Who can play?
Anybody can play. The more the merrier. Even if you normally don't play immortal games you are still welcome to try. The games can become great learning resources for the player trying to improve. Even if you don't finish the game, we are still interested to hear about your experience.

Do's and Don'ts
We are going to be using the honor system. Feel free to restart, reload, play the same game multiple times, but don't use the science overflow exploit. Also please don't edit the game in IGE. If you do chose to cheat, please don't share your results in the comments. Also, please use the spoiler tag if you post a picture, comment about neighboring civs, close by wonders, or locations of ancient ruins.

Also, please tell us about your Build Order, Social Policies, Tech Order, and what type of wonders you went after. I know a lot of this stuff seems pretty mundane to the experienced player, but the details are incredibly useful to people trying to learn.

Future Games in the Series
I want users to submit saves from turn 0. Preferably the person submitting the game has played enough turns to know the map is either difficult, fun, or unique in some enjoyable way. Write a short description as to why it is special and email the save to immortalchallengelineup@gmail.com

Important
If you submit a game for the challenge, you must have the DLC map packs disabled. Not everybody has them and they are honestly kind of useless. Having them disabled will allow more participants.


Please use spoiler tags for anything specific to this map for the first 48 hours. Thank you.
 

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Germany is a current topic so I am posting this 2 days early.

This start might be overpowered, then again it might not. I was rolling tons of jungle and I didnt want to use that. This was about the first non-jungle I saw.

Good luck!
 
I'm still learning quite a bit. How do you think this one is overpowered?


still need to finish the russia game.. I'm bad at domination.
 
Is this the OP Petra map you mentioned in the Germany thread or the other one? I'd still like to see the OP map posted (not here, obviously).
 
After 50 turns

Spoiler :

Moved settler SE to flood plains. The capital has 3 gold, 1 marble and 1 incense in range. Although I am not a big fan of domination this map looks great for it :) Moreover Germany has a bonus for cheaper unit maintenance. Domination it is this time :D

Found 2 religious CS and got +1 faith from desert tiles. Already at war with Korea, stole 1 worker and I am going to train my units on them.




 

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Map is not overpowered for me.
Spoiler :
I had a brilliant start, Full Honor and 3 culture ruins, lots of barb killing/converting, and T60-something construction. My CBs made mincemeat of Busan, but for some reason couldn't take Seoul before T100. I killed TEN of their CBs by worker luring and every time I killed one, another one (and sometimes a swordsman) would jump out. I've done the math and there is no way Seoul at that size and time can build CBs in one turn. AI cheating, yet again.

I guess I'll take my promoted crack troops and go kill the Poles instead.
 
Map is not overpowered for me.
Spoiler :
I had a brilliant start, Full Honor and 3 culture ruins, lots of barb killing/converting, and T60-something construction. My CBs made mincemeat of Busan, but for some reason couldn't take Seoul before T100. I killed TEN of their CBs by worker luring and every time I killed one, another one (and sometimes a swordsman) would jump out. I've done the math and there is no way Seoul at that size and time can build CBs in one turn. AI cheating, yet again.

I guess I'll take my promoted crack troops and go kill the Poles instead.
I think the map is OP. I did the same thing before t90 and also got a bunch of wonders. Not sure what the AI's are doing... most of them hate me, though.


Spoiler :
Tradition opener, Full Liberty (GE for Petra in Cologne), Aristocracy. Planning to go Rat and Aesthetics. Going to maybe delay guilds and wait for Futurism. I want to try Autocracy culture win, though it is pretty iffy with Maya and Siam on the map.

Got so excited about Petra that I forgot to build the NC. Also, I had to reload because Austria got Petra 1 turn before me. Not cool. So I built Petra, HG, Masoleum and the Pyramids, and captured ToA, Statue of Zeus, and Stonehenge.

I settled Berlin, Hamburg, Munich, and went around capturing barbs. I think Germany's UA is op for early conquest. I attacked Busan on t70 or something and then accepted it in peace deal and razed it. I later built Frankfurt a tile away from Busan's previous location. Took Seoul on t90. Sejong went Honor (lolwat), but his army sucked. Monte marched his army on me, so I bribed him to go fight Maria Teresa because she denounced me.

My religion is really strong, too.

Overall, I derped a few times and hence why my Education came on t120, but it seems that from now on I am only going uphill.
 
Very weird AI behavior or cruel
Spoiler :
Polish
joke?

337 turns into the game...

Spoiler :
I must have about 12 hours played on this game which is rare for me, but I made a big mistake and almost got wiped out by Poland. So, I was determined to get my revenge.

Now, below you will see my CS ally surrounded by Winged Hussar, yet I dont think they are allowed to attack because of the odds, so the whole Polish army is just stuck there.


Screenshot:
Spoiler :
 
A question on the German UA since I have almost no experience with them and no good experience when I tried them at Immortal (where I lose if I don't play well (for me)).

To have that 2/3 chance to convert a barb to my side, is it any kill or is it only a kill where I destroy their camp?

This is discussed in the Megabearsfan thread but I don't understand it.
 
Neilkaz> The chance roll is applied when you move into their camp. At that point you have a 2/3 chance to get the unit you destroyed before you moved in.
 
That awkward moment when you stored 11,000 faith for lategame musician buys, and it takes 1 naturally spawned GM to win the game. T287 CV. I haven't wonderwhored like this since the days of playing on Emperor. I even got wonders I have never ever built because did not care enough for them. I think this is a very strong map for any VC, especially if
Spoiler :
you get Petra. It's easily doable if you go straight Liberty. I went Trad opener into Liberty and missed Petra only by 1 turn in my expo, so I reloaded. If I didn't have to move the GE from Berlin, I wouldn't have to reload at all. Also, I did not expand fast and spent time building a couple of 1cpt wonders, but it really helped to have a cultural CS ally and getting 1 Pagoda. All the cities grow pretty fast even without Tradition and Berlin, Cologne, and Hamburg have good production, while Cologne and Berlin are swimming in gold. So you have growth, gold, and production, which means you can go for science, culture, diplo, or domination.


Besides, the AI's were doing badly in my game. They didn't expand and didn't build regular wonders. Perhaps, they were too scared of Furor Teutonicus? :D Speaking of which.. as a budding warmonger, I find this UA absolutely lo-ve-ly. It is not going to work very well on Deity for sure, but in this game, I got, like, 8-9 units from camps and it didn't break my treasury. The UB is not bad, too, considering it comes at a point when land trade routes to CS's give around the same gold as to other civs (and 2-3 science can be neglected).

Kind of lazy to do a write-up, but
Spoiler :
after getting Petra and taking Seoul, it was only a road uphill. I was the scoreboard leader for most of the game except at the very end, when Siam eliminated Aztecs and took Warsaw. I bribed him to war the whole game because I did not want him to build wonders, and he hated me throughout, while I felt lazy going to war with him.

I got every wonder during and past the Renaissance (12 turns to build Sistine Chapel -- waaat?!), even Prora. All museums were stacked and Theming Bonuses achieved (except the Hermitage which I filled with artifacts). I didn't build guilds until picking Futurism, and with Pisa, National Epic, Arts Funding, Garden, Louvre, Aesthetics, I spawned enough great people to give me around 7,000 tourism. I also picked Reliquary when enhancing religion, so all of them with scientists game me over 2k faith, as well. I DoW'ed Austria at the end to get 50% tourism bonus to Siam, but it really didn't matter at that point because I could have bought 5 musicians with all that faith, and I didn't need that either. I could have won much faster, but since I was doing so well, I just sat back and enjoyed my easy ride without micro-ing too much.
 
Here is the tale of my game.

Spoiler :
While I notice that most people so far chose to eliminate Korea, I went after Monty. I must have gotten 8 or 9 ‘free’ units like everyone else. I expanded south and took Mt. Sinai. I had to settle for Religious Idols, but of course I ended up with a religion. So, I attacked Monty with those troops and ground him down with cats & comp bows. I took his cap and one expo just to the NE of Tenochtitlan on the Salt. I did not have enough power to get his last city so I made peace. He would later lose that city to a CS no less and was eliminated.

Now its after turn 100 and I start a long slow consolidation of my empire as I try to set up 6 trade routes and get a Hanse in each city. I make 2 more German cities, one on the west coast, one on the river to the east. But I neglect getting my troops upgraded and we are moving into gunpowder times…

Out in the world, Harold is expanding while Pacal Wonder Whores a CV. Poland must have been at war with Korea because they win that Korean city which is right next to me in a peace deal and get the whole thing at 18 pop!

The next thing I know I’m looking at a carpet of Winged Hussar coming at me in the north and also against Tenochtitlan. I cannot hold on to the second Aztec city that I had even though I just spent about 1,000 gold getting it up online with a Hanse & Courthouse. It gets raised. I had to really turtle and rely on human war fighting vs AI to stabilize the game which eventually I did.

Then we move into Ideology times and Poland is first to Autocracy. I really want to make a Lightning War Panzer attack because I want to study how long that takes to win once it gets started. So I take Auto second and start suffering pressure from Freedom Siam down south. He even attacks me, but I eliminate him.

And that’s where I am at now, going after Poland. Its really late and my Panzers are going after +110 defense cities. So, mostly it’s a botched attempt. But it was mostly a point of Honor to continue and wipe out Poland. See the screen shot posted above.

I think Clausewitz' Legacy started about 10 turns ago.
 
Speaking of which.. as a budding warmonger, I find this UA absolutely lo-ve-ly. It is not going to work very well on Deity for sure

Actually, if you play around with it some, you'll find that on many maps, you can go barb-hunting to your heart's content if you do it really early.

I had my first Deity win of any kind with Germany, which was an aborted DomV into DiploV (aborted because my MacBook couldn't handle the number of units in the game because Monty wanted to try and out-military me and I had more between 50 and 80 tanks and was still swimming in money).

In that game, and in many subsequent ones with Germany (a favourite civ of mine), I've gone for Archery as first choice tech, then AH into Construction and BO is Scout, Monument, Archer, Archer, Archer, yawn. You can rush buy a Granary and/or a worker, and quite often Germany isn't far from tundra where the AIs dare less to tread.

In most of those games, you can gift some of the brutes and hand-axes to CS to further inflate the influence you have from barb quests, or use them for settler-blocking, lookouts, etc, etc.

The UA is one of the strongest T0 abilities and you effectively don't need to build city-capture units, and can happily keep your starting Warrior at home for the Honor right-side culture bonus, or station it near a worker farm, whatever.

A ready made army, even on Deity.
 
I seriously feel like destroying my computer sometimes.

First of all, I don't know exactly how but even after NC (sort of late on turn 92) with 3 cities, I had 57 bpt for quite a while after completion. Is there something different in terms of Immortal with bpt values you get? Because first, I don't think this is normal, I think in Deity you are somewhere around 69-70% after NC completion with 3-4 cities. However, even with this abysmal bpt I was only 5% behind of one of the AI.

Secondly, I took out my closest neighbour but then two other allies decided to DoW me, and in the process of fighting a two front war, I lost almost all of my well promoted XBs. At that point I was just too enraged to carry on and quit.

Still trying to make this Honor/Commerce playstyle work, no success so far.
 
Neilkaz> The chance roll is applied when you move into their camp. At that point you have a 2/3 chance to get the unit you destroyed before you moved in.
I remember when I was first playing Germany (okay like 5 times) and thought it was on kill so I sat 3 archers at a camp and farmed. Hate RNGesus
 
Neilkaz> The chance roll is applied when you move into their camp. At that point you have a 2/3 chance to get the unit you destroyed before you moved in.

Thx, that might affect my plans to culture farm raging barbs with early honor since I have to destroy their camps to have this 2/3 chance. Hopefully more camps will spawn quickly.
 
Thx, that might affect my plans to culture farm raging barbs with early honor since I have to destroy their camps to have this 2/3 chance. Hopefully more camps will spawn quickly.

Its not raging barbs, that was left over form a previous post. Its normal barbs.
 
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