The Immortal Challenge Lineup - Game #12 - Aztecs

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by budweiser, Dec 23, 2014.

  1. consentient

    consentient Domination!

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    Well, I have to say that I'm chuffed to bits that my win time is comparable with my hero, Acken.

    But I must also say that mine was a 2nd play through, so cannot be compared like for like.

    Finally, I had considerable luck, as I will now describe.

    Spoiler :
    Capital #1 - Ulundi - ca. T50ish

    My Jaguar spam approached Shaka's capital to find his expo on about 25% strength from war with Boudicca (which I started) and barbarian assistance. I DoW'ed, literally slid into Umgungthingey, and used its ranged attacks and a few quickly built archers to take down what would otherwise become an Impi factory. During this time, he built only Settlers, whom I easily convinced to join my Central American murder religion instead. No one cared that I wiped a tribe out of history, except for Boudicca, who was of course next on the list.

    Capital #2 - Edinburgh - ca. 60ish

    Shaka may well have done the hard work for me. When I got there, with a couple more archers in tow, she had a lone horse archer. The horse archer didn't want the workers I offered it, but its ranged attack + the city's was not enough to kill units, and because I had a decent number, I took it less than 10 turns after Ulundi. A nearby barb camp had been eating her settlers, and actually, I never cleared this camp since it was a harmless distraction. (One lesson I've learned from this game is that if you want to win DomV quickly, you don't do anything unless it's absolutely necessary.)

    Capital #3 - Warsaw - ca. 70ish

    Captured workers had been building roads south, and were nearly at Krakow by the time I DoW'ed the guy who had become an unstoppable monster in my previous play through. Krakow fell in 2 turns, and Warsaw a few turns later. Nothing to say here except that I suspect Casimir may well have had the same treatment from the barbs as Boudicca. My most heartfelt thanks go to the barb leaders.

    Capital #4 - Palenque - ca. 75-80

    Again, absolutely no dramas. I could see that my unit count and unit 'edge' were good enough to take the map with a decent run, so I largely stopped making units at this point and concentrated on faith production, culture and saving money for upgrades. I paused for a while after decking the Maya so i could a) sort out the order I would strike at the remaining capitals, b) hit Machinery and upgrade my CBs, and c) get my happiness in check, since I had by this time a huge empire.

    Capital #5 - London

    I chose this one next because at this stage I had no idea how long the game would end up being and I didn't fancy overcoming the Great Wall late in the game. I suspect Acken probably took out Marrakesh before London, but haven't watched his game to find out. (I am a huge fan of his, but have been too busy writing and playing my own games!). Liz had no ability to make units for some reason, and this is a classic example of where Immortal can be too easy for me. From beginning my final assault of York until capturing Attila's Court was less than 40 turns, and in Deity it would take an era or two most likely.

    Capitals 6&7 were almost simultaneous and wholly without resistance. Attila was still making Horse Archers, which a decent upgraded XB man can kill in one turn. Ahmad didn't make a single unit the whole time I was in his territory. What WAS the AI thinking?


    I was far from optimal, so I concur with Acken that this map can be cleared a lot more quickly. My social policies were far from ideal (Liberty + Piety) because, again, I had no idea how quickly things would snowball and I wanted to get Jesuit Education. Also, I only hard built 2 expos, so with 1 or 2 more settlers could have made a dozen more units, or made the ones I had more quickly.

    I'm still not where I want to be in terms of my unit movements during combat. There is only a certain amount you can learn from watching LPs, and the rest one must learn from experience, but I am happy with my sweep, and it's inspired me to try the same thing on the next suitable DCL.
     
  2. morario84

    morario84 Chieftain

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    Def upload, would be fun to see.

     
  3. Acken

    Acken Deity

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  4. TLHeart

    TLHeart King

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    Thanks for the upload, even with out commentary.

    I have been using this, trying to get better at offensive war... and how you keep your science moving forward. Many reloads, to learn why one move works, and why another gets a unit killed. Steeling workers, I am getting better at, need to have that escape route. Blocking with just one or 2 units, and the importance of war roads... to get troops moving around the map, and around ruff terrain.

    Small changes in blocking causes the AI to settle in different spots.

    Now if I can just learn to speed up my times so that I can clear the map. And getting beat to the pyramids really changes the combat engineers roll. Went on turn 62, by the mongols, with the help of the mine.
     
  5. Acken

    Acken Deity

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    It's also good to go pyramids earlier. Glory7 suggests to do it before settlers in his Zulu guide.
     
  6. Karpyan

    Karpyan Chieftain

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    A bit late to the party, but T 421(!) SV

    Spoiler :
    One of the most interesting games I've played for a long time. Have been trying Peddro's honor/commerce/autocracy strat with no success so far, but keen to improve my warmongering skills. Generally I do well with Trad opener, so on the third re-roll I went with that. Founded three cities, settled pretty much in place, expo came to the north to get Lake Victoria and second expo on the river further south towards Warsaw. Was looking to neuter Shaka early so a combined DOW with Boudicca calmed him down a bit - I took Umng.. and then sold it to her to solve happiness issues.

    Three Trad cities were growing well with the Aztec UB, but I had no specific VC in mind by around turn 130. Noticed Pacal was wonder spamming so I built up some military units, based on XBs - Poland for some reason was going OCC so I was able to take that down pretty easily. By this point Pacal already had around 10 wonders and clearly exerting some cultural influence, so he is next on the list. Built up some military and went down south for a bit of action. Unfortunately repelled as he was tech leader and the XBs just couldn't do the job. White peace and back to the drawing board, so beeline Artillery. Shaka was fully neutered and eventually was wiped out by Morocco and Boudicca. Decided to go after her next with a cheeky backstab induced by Morocco, and during that process did the upgrades to Artillery and Gatlings; took Dublin and Edinburgh leaving her with Cardiff. By this time Pacal was a runaway, with 15 wonders, so while I was holding him off from his CV by building up some culture, war was the only solution.

    Kept spamming units, a mixture of Artillery, a few Rifles/GWI and a few landships upgrading to tanks. and went for the second attempt. Allied key surrounding city states on his borders plus Belgrade for extra units. He also settled in my face twice so the route to Palenque was much more complex. At this point, had DOF with Morocco which kept me going but he gradually turned sour while Atilla got more and more friendly. So, took his expo next to my capital, razed, took Nottingham which he had captured, then south to Chichen Itza (during which time I upgraded to Rocket Artillery), ideology pressure was coming on. Took Chichen Itza, took Manila, liberated it, then south-east to another expo; took that out and then on to Palenque for round 2, by which time most of his military was wiped out (combined with allied city states Cape Town and Melbourne). His cultural VC (influential on 3 out of 5) reversed after I acquired Palenque's 15 wonders. Yet I was still hovering around 0 happiness. Only Atilla and I had gone order. England next, and the miserable cow had no answer to my combination of tanks, rocket artillery and Sipahi pillaging behind the lines. So I am no.1 in pretty much everything by now, and started building spaceship parts and spamming military. During each of these wars I had a mounted unit go behind the lines and pillage anything of value, particularly strategic resources - enjoyable strategy. Managed to take out all of Palenque's aluminium, oil and later uranium while fighting in one of the expos, leading to a multiple strategic resource penalty.

    Meanwhile, I kept voting Atilla as UN leader. Eventually he put forward order as the world ideology which passed and I went from about 3 happiness to 60.

    Interesting two front war with Morocco, my former BFF turned Hostile and combined with an Afraid Atilla. Morocco was a long slog, including a mutual exchange of nuclear weapons, but I eventually wore him down (for the last 25 turns had the spaceship ready to go but wanted some warmongering practice - which was very educational). The AI wholly neutered, only Atilla remained, but at 4am I finally launched the spaceship in one turn.

    What I learned from this is: (a) a lot about combat; (b) if you can neuter the AIs main threats (Zulu aggression; Maya culture/wonder spamming), there is no plan B. I could have kept playing for another 400 turns with no hope of the AI winning; (c) fighting alongside other AIs against a common enemy is great for diplo (this happened probably four times during the game); (d) sneaking a mounted unit (later cavalry or a tank) to pillage for gold and strategic resources is highly effective) (e) I screwed up Iron Curtain, not realising that you need to annex straightaway for the Courthouse bonus, so this didn't help the happiness issues); and (f) need to keep practising Peddro's strat.

    SPs were full trad, full rationalism (with the aim of out-teching Maya after my XB failure), dipped into patronage and eventually full commerce for mercantilism and the happiness bonus (which came before world ideology), then around 8 in Order.

    Thanks for the map.
     
  7. consentient

    consentient Domination!

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    Karpyan, I'm working on Peddro's strategy myself, and have begun to get quite* good at it. I'm far from mastering it. But if you'd like to discuss which elements you're finding most difficult, perhaps we can share our stories? PM if you want.

    * => quite = not bad
     
  8. cairnsy44

    cairnsy44 Gooner - first class

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  9. consentient

    consentient Domination!

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    I don't accept from Attila, Oda, and the like, but everyone else I accept, knowing that in most cases it will be moving my carpet towards THEIR capital in 50 turns, and not the other way around ;)
     
  10. z284pwr

    z284pwr Prince

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    This.

    Plus if I have seen their scout by the capital may as well take the gold which can be rather precious early game playing honor. 5 embassies equals 5 more units to carpet with.
     
  11. cairnsy44

    cairnsy44 Gooner - first class

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    Acken,
    I also noticed in you LP, that you seem to have fearless workers who are often playing what appears to be the role of bait. Is that actually what you are doing with them or were you just building roads and repairing to pillage?
     
  12. consentient

    consentient Domination!

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    If I might answer for Acken, I would say that once you have more than enough workers, they become your front-line troops. In my last game I counted and I had 27 workers when I won the game. Most were in the process of removing roads their ancestors had once built. But yes, worker baiting is a good trick to make the AI move its units out of the city.
     
  13. cairnsy44

    cairnsy44 Gooner - first class

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    Thanks! I also noticed that the promotions he chose were not what I normally do, particularly with the melee units. I am certain that I see the logic and am anxious to try them out. Do you follow a standard promotion path?
     
  14. Acken

    Acken Deity

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    Yes, I think I explain how worker bait works in my China LP.
    Basically the AI has a priority list which is:
    -Attack a unit
    -Capture a worker
    -Do nothing

    So if a unit cannot attack one of yours but can capture a worker they will do it 100% of the time. It helps to make them move out of a city and ease your conquest ;)

    Don't follow what I do with melee units promotion I don't really pay attention. Ideally you want cover for your city attackers and medics for the others.
     
  15. i_imperator

    i_imperator Imperator

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    I gave this a go but it didnt go as planned.

    Spoiler :
    followed akcen's build order for the compbow rush, managed to wipe out shakas huge army (which he couldn't financially support) and kill him by turn 93. But then a few turns later every other bloody ai except for england and pacal declared war on me. Atilla, Celts,Poland, and even morocco (whom i had a DOF with). Dunno what exactly went wrong tbh, i had 500 gold in the bank but mabye my army was too small after the shaka war (4 comps, spear and a great general, started with 7 combs and 2 spears)
     
  16. sun8119

    sun8119 Warlord

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    T253 CV

    I've found an old save of this game.

    Spoiler :

    From what I remember I stole many workers and settlers from Shaka and eventually Morocco finished them. That was #1 threat that I wanted to eliminate. I also had several wars against Celts, Poland and Maya none of which were a real threat except annoying pillaging and destroyed caravans. Later on I've won WF and IG easily as cities were growing well (ToA, HG, Floating gardens, 15% religion) and production was good.
    In the end CV was achieved.




     

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  17. Half Nelson

    Half Nelson Ancient Mariner Supporter

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    I loved this map, a fantastic Immortal Challenge. I liked the starting terrain and committed immediately to sending my Aztecs to the stars (I haven't played a Science game for ages). Several significant hurdles had to be "negotiated" before I could achieve this goal but I got there in the end.
    Spoiler :

    The finish date is a bit disappointing but this was a challenging map (for me at least) and almost constant war with one or more AI slowed things down considerably. I dealt with Shaka over a protracted war, gaining Edinburgh in the process as he had already conquered the Celts. My attempts to play peacefully after then were thwarted by all the remaining AI (except Attila!). I had a strong raw science base but my sprawling empire and relatively-low early production seemed to slow things down. I took Tradtion, RH Commerce, Rationalism and Order. One unusual feature here for my games is that I never possessed a coastal city (excepting a quickly razed Zulu expo in a horrible spot). I considered the Great Barrier reef spot at many points, but more important things always seemed to get in the way. I really enjoy playing as the Aztecs and there was just sufficient friendly terrain (jungle, lakes) on this map to make them happy. The constant war kept sacrificial culture ticking along and heavily-promoted and upgraded Jaguars (think Infantry) are very powerful units.

     

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