The Immortal Challenge Lineup - Game #28 Spain

[Nigel_Tufnel2]

t50-171

Spoiler :

So I marched W to attack Sweden but he built the GW. I went ahead and tried to pound him with too small a force, but had to quit - got a sweet peace deal. Soon I had XBs, and more of every unit, but the gpt was too good so I swam up and took Beijing easily instead. Another huge peace deal. Found Mt Kailash, so settled that too. 4 NWs worked (counting GBR as 2).

Barcelona built Machu, Oracle, and SoZ.

I soon met everyone else, so decided to go after Venice. I screwed myself by using 4/6 iron on Melee - I had thought I would have Tercio's earlier to free up the iron. Long swim over, city fell pretty quickly to my surprise. Even 2 Frigates do a fair amount of damage. Now swimming for Siam - will have 6 Frigates and 2 Privateers, plus 5 ground units. Kept some back at Venice, hope to slowly build up a second army there with Canons, eventually Arty. I don't see any obvious path to the other caps - Iroq and Bab works, but then you are nowhere near Heile... I won't have nearly enough of a force coming out of Siam. This game may go a long time. I don't make the jump from Pangaea to Continents well for DomV - my timings get thrown off.

Full Tradition, left side Honor, 2 in Exploration. Not sure if I will go 2 in Rat, start Commerce...? Might just try to finish Honor.

I also threw my timing off (again) by proposing WF. It will come around Arty, so I may just get Chemistry, then go Sci Theory, maybe even Radio, before coming back for Arty. I have been getting good use out of Holy Warriors, I never want to leave the Renn Era!

 

[consentient]

T248 Domination

This would have been faster had I finished Honor, and maybe not become so sloppy. Artillery and Cavalry finished off the other continent and then swam across the channel to kill lifelong friend

Spoiler :

Gustavus

.

Thanks to the other Gustavus for a fun OP map. I'm hoping the next one is as challenging as this one was easy!

 

[Gustavus Rex]

T248 Domination

This would have been faster had I finished Honor, and maybe not become so sloppy. Artillery and Cavalry finished off the other continent and then swam across the channel to kill lifelong friend

Spoiler :

Gustavus

.

Thanks to the other Gustavus for a fun OP map. I'm hoping the next one is as challenging as this one was easy!

Point taken. Rolling a challenging Immortal map is a challenge by itself!

 

[consentient]

It wasn't intended at all as a criticism. I like having OP maps

I think sparse resources is a really good way to go.

If you want some help with the maps, I'll send you a bundle and you can see what you like from it.

Just PM me some suggestions of 4-5 civs to roll for, if you like.

 

[Gustavus Rex]

It wasn't intended at all as a criticism. I like having OP maps

I think sparse resources is a really good way to go.

If you want some help with the maps, I'll send you a bundle and you can see what you like from it.

Just PM me some suggestions of 4-5 civs to roll for, if you like.

Didn't take it as such!

I think I have decent a plan for a possible challenge, of at least a bit different experience but I always welcome maps for any civ we haven't played yet. Specially the fun ones. We need to play Mongolia, Maya, Huns and Zulus sooner rather then later!

For Huns and Mongolia i really, REALLY think we should play them on huge maps. They are to strong for standard maps.

 

[stormtrooper412]

yeah, even on a standard Deity map, Mongolia are severely OP

 

[consentient]

I played some Large and Huge maps recently and hated them. Not only did my MacBook overheat and die, but the map problems I can sometimes have that cause me to reroll, were exacerbated.

If you want to make Immortal hard for Huns, Mongolia, etc, let someone who doesn't care about the spoilers to manually edit the file in IGE and give the AI some advantages back.

As I said, I like the power of OP maps and civs. I don't like it when a map nerfs a civ by making its main VC considerably harder, like putting Genghis on some peninsula, island or other isolated start. In general, I only like maps where all VCs are on the table. I've been arguing for Demi-God for some time now, as a level between Immortal and Deity. If the community doesn't think that there is any desire to have separate levels for Immortal+ and Deity+, then maybe we could have the odd map with those parameters. I'd LOVE to see Zulu/Maya/Mongols/Huns on Immortal+ and am happy to take a hit for the team in rolling a map and editing it, if that's what others want.

 

[stormtrooper412]

Well, I can try and grasp the IGE and do just that. I don't really play Immortal much anyway so I don't have a solid understanding of what *exactly* makes it tick so if you'd be kind to give a list of stuff to do, I'll make an effort by the next ICL

 

[consentient]

Well since you can win at Deity, you know that Immortal is much, much easier. So a challenging Immortal map will have less resources, or problematic neighbours, or any of the other things that make some Deity maps more difficult than others.

This is really Gustavus' decision to make (and that of the other ICL regulars), but I'd imagine that giving the AI some advantages once in a while would be interesting.

Anyway, I've given my opinion...time for others to chip in.

 

[stormtrooper412]

Well, I can think about similar to what Acken did, have the AI start with a city all tier 1 buildings and I pinch off some strats from the player. I think scarce resources doesn't make them appear less on the map, just in lesser quantities, right?

Either way, if you're up for some cooking, I can try and learn how to do it

 

[Gustavus Rex]

I love huge maps on Immortal. On deity it's a nightmare with far far far away Korea. The size nerfs all vc except sv for all civs, so I find it's more about changing playstyle to adopt. More competitions for wonders as well. Offcourse I have a pimped laptop that handle them and I respect the fact that others don't.

I play a lot of sparse and it usually means less different luxuries in the hood. You can still roll 7 salt - but its likely to be only salt. Strategic also comes in smaller portions like 1 horse etc.

I would not mind if you want to fiddle around and cook something to make things interesting. I think Huns, Mongolia, Zulus or Maya is suposed to show up soon!

 

[Nigel_Tufnel2]

I would rather play a Large map than have scarce resources. I would favor slight IGE changes over scarce resources as well. Other ways to increase the challenge would be to have Shaka (and his ilk) medium far away so they might get strong, and have some usually strong civs like Poland in the mix. Fewer close neighbors would increase difficulty as well.

 

[consentient]

OK can I suggest we 5 (Gustavus, Budweiser, Nige, ST and myself) all take a civ and try to make a really nice map from one of:

Huns, Mongols, Zulu, Maya, Babylon

Whaddya think?

[EDIT: If you like my idea, can I make the Zulu one?]

 

[stormtrooper412]

Alright, that works for me. I'll try to cook it up a bit. Any common criteria?

 

[consentient]

Which one are you most wanting to do?

 

[stormtrooper412]

I'd like Mayans.

Again, any specific guidelines? Do we remain at Standard or dial it up a bit? More challenging, balanced, etc?

 

[Gustavus Rex]

My common criteria is all about looks. I pick only pretty maps!

The biggest point of different map-rollers is variations so I think everyone should pick a map based on his/her own taste.

Take your picks and I'll take the scrap as long as it's not Babylon.

 

[Nigel_Tufnel2]

I will do Mongolia.

 

[phillipwyllie]

Alright, that works for me. I'll try to cook it up a bit. Any common criteria?

Horses

 

[consentient]

I'd like Mayans.

Again, any specific guidelines? Do we remain at Standard or dial it up a bit? More challenging, balanced, etc?

I second Gustavus's call for 'pretty' because I think that the aesthetic is strangely and almost exactly proportional to the playability.

I'd rather keep it at Standard but if you want more challenging, try Sparse Resources, more AIs, give the AIs some buildings and/or Wonders, etc.

I guess we're in an experimental phase that will at worst generate 5 interesting but unsuitable maps, and at best will help us learn more about how to make the ICL even better than the super-duper phenomenon it is