The Immortal Challenge Lineup - Game #7 - Songhai

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by Gustavus Rex, Oct 14, 2014.

  1. electroncafe

    electroncafe Chieftain

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    I would love to participate in these but I don't have all the extra DLC as I bought it all piecemeal. Would it be possible to do one sometime that is just G&K and BNW?

    Thank you!
     
  2. Fluphen Azine

    Fluphen Azine What is Fluphen Azine?

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    WOW ... Im really on a cold streak. I played this game up to turn 100 going full liberty. I stole 2 workers from protected CS's and after the 2nd I was double DOWed by Japan and France. Later France decided to team up with me and DOF me. However the game is out of whack for me to finish at any reasonable finish time. I decided to save file but most likely will not continue :)
     
  3. neilkaz

    neilkaz King

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    Hopefully Steam will have some sort of holiday sale(s) and it won't break your bank to buy the needed DLCs and get to play with more civs and wonders.
     
  4. Fire0rb

    Fire0rb Warlord

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    I guess next week when the relaese of civ be happens, there might be a sale for the other civ games (but i remember there was a big sale for every 2k game on steam some weeks ago)
     
  5. renton555

    renton555 Warlord

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    Spoiler :
    Very easy map. Mt. K within 4 moves of your settler, on a river, with desert hills and plenty of luxuries, and plenty of land to settle on. With songhai you could easily win any VC here, SV before 220 is probably possible, religious domination and cultural are good options as well.

    I didn't feel like playing a serious game so I just went for a half-hearted sacred sites play using legalism to get free MPMs. It didn't work as well as I thought, but I still managed to settle 12 cities while managing to keep all the AI civs at war with one another. I only built two archers and no workers. Got influential on most of the civs, but Siam was culture runaway so the game was doomed once my happiness was too low to build more settlers, and the aggressive expansion penalty got so bad that india and france permadowed me.




    ...........
     
  6. Soffacet

    Soffacet Warlord

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    Fwiw France and Japan double-teamed me around T70 in my game as well. It's usually unwise to steal from two different CS. I stole one from CS and one from Japan. Also I think Tradition is a lot stronger for Petra start locations (and in general).
     
  7. Grendeldef

    Grendeldef Trancerelic

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    First things first - what a stupid map. T201 Domination and taking all the cities was expectedly easy but converting all the cities is even more easy if one doesn't forget prophets sleeping in cities but actually runs around with them. In the end I had two unused prophets and two partly used.

    Spoiler :

    Something novel from the beginning as I didn't start a any wars to steal workers - not a practice I wish to repeat as there's nothing much to the. Also had to settle 3rd city quickly slightly off the selected spot to prevent Nappy settling same area and 4th city well off and even more delayed. Very late 5th city after ~30 turns of traveling - did I already say what a lovely map.
    T25 pantheon, T65 religion, T76 Liberty finished and GE used for Petra on T80, T84 4C NC, T87 Oracle, T92 joined India DoWing Nappy, T95 enchanced my crappy religion, T99 Attila wiped Pedro off the map.
    T100 CS, T105 Borobudur, T106 Pyramids, T107 DoWed because Maria paid for it. T120 Hagia Sophia & Oda RIP which didn't please my friends so I was going solo after that. T132 Paris, T134 DoWed Gandhi, T141 took Delhi and T143 India RIP without ever meeting Attila or Rammy. T151 Nappy joined the choir of angels.
    T153 DoWed Attila, T157 ND, T158 DoWed because his prophet was available and missionaries started getting really annoying, T160 founded WC, T166 DoW Maria, T182 Attila's Court, T184 Lisbon & goodbye Maria, T196 Rio and Attila was no more and T201 Sukhotai to finish the game. Not forgetting my prophets it'd have been ~15 turns shorter game.

    Nothing much happened in early stages, befriended with 4 AIs, was running negative gpt and mostly in severe lack of happiness so std Liberty until at some point some lucky CS quests and my happiness was +20 but nobody had any money so I couldn't seel anything. Caravans were mostly unused, Nationals unbuild due to constant razing and Attila & co really didn't want to build much of anything or they got lost during capture. No navy but I did swim across inland sea with a scout.
    Both GSs were used to bulb Cavalry and both GAs were enjoying the view in the end. GWs were bulbed form culture which I didn't really need.
    After Liberty 4 in Piety and then Commerce & Honor openings. I should've gone Honor earlier to get xp boost as I had all the faith I needed well before the end and since capital had no TRs the Commerce opening was wasted nor did I bothered to build road to the Easter half of the continent. Piety was filled in the end just to dump a policy somewhere.

    5 own cities, 2 annexed & 9 puppets all following Tengriism like the CSs but I didn't have all of them allied.
    By far the most intering thing happened on T167 when my Longswordsman swithed sides to Attila during a siege of Lahore. No defending troops, no indication of taking dmg or losing a unit, it just switched sides during a turn. Other than that I lost very few units and even when I did I was mostly known in advance I just was too lazy to do proper domination and terrain was much greater obstacle than enemy troops. Maybe it's just a feeling but the AI seems even more lazy improving tiles than it used to. By the time I took Paris T132 it had 3 farms and a silk done, marble, silk and stone undone amongst other things.

    For the fun of it I replayed the start with same pacifistic style with Tradition but settled other cities only after NC and still the satellites were several pops larger on T100 as obviously so was the capital. All the same wonders, less military but no shortage of money or happiness at any point and teching way faster than with Liberty. The easiness of Tradition is scary.





     
  8. Nigel_Tufnel

    Nigel_Tufnel This game goes to 11

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    t139 - I agree, Grendeldef - Tradition is so much easier.
    Spoiler :
    Sent Warrior SE, saw some desert hills, so sent Settler E/NE. Saw Kilimanjaro and more spices, so settled 2 W/NW of Kil. Popped a culture ruin before I settled - saw no reason not to open Tradition. Salt! Met Oda, ugh, so close. Decided to take him out ASAP, otherwise he is a constant nuisance. Stole a worker and I think 2 Settlers. Took Kyoto t63 with 6 Archers (1 bought), 1 Warrior, lost a Spear.

    Went 3 more into Trad, then took Honor open - was thinking of Dom and getting left side of Honor. Tech-wsie, I kept changing my mind. Started beelining for Petra, but then went for Philo then horse line. Figured I'd take Paris from the N and had allied Singapore, but needed fast units. Bribed Nappy vs India to soften them up, no idea if they engaged, next turn Nappy DOWs me just as I had started spreading range units far and wide to hunt barbs. Got back before much damage and have been killing units and stealing Settlers and Workers like crazy, had 9 workers before I started deleting. Nappy offered Lyon in a peace deal, I took it (not the best location) and it had a Writers Guild! WTF? I reloaded the game because I didn't know this could happen and it had crappy food... I couldn't build a second in my cap with Lyons.

    Maria and India are Hostile, of course. Pedro DOF, Attila displeased with that, Ram knows nothing.

    Decided to forget continued Dom, Petra t103, tried several wonders, none finished. 1st religion, 2 happy Temples and Tithe, enhanced with Pagodas (couldn't believe they were still available) and Itin Preach.

    Finished Trad, Patronage open for FP, would like Consulates but will hit Renn first, so likely go Rat open. I suppose minor handicap to delay - this will be an easy win, obviously. India and Pedro are wonder whoring - Delhi would be nice to have. I wonder if I can stay at war with Nappy all game? Tempted to buy tiles and Citadel NW of deer to take Orleans? No range or log yet...
     

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  9. Iberian

    Iberian Prince

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    I am still a fan of dual tree opening. I run settler on liberty then back to fill out tradition then into rationalism and back to liberty for happiness and those amazing 1 turn 25pt healing workers.

    Not ideal for fastest times but I play to annihilate the AI so that means conquering the entire map late game.

    I got 4 cities up all with Obs but should have gone 5. France tried to expand into myself and Japan. As soon as He settled next to the gems I went with Oda (almost typed Toku) but he got Paris and Orleans because I was still building Petra and infrastructure. Atilla and Rammy cleared their half while I skyrocketed in tech and pushed to infantry when everyone else still was with muskets. Finally Oda 2x citadel bombed me to take the gems and I decided to end it. Crushed him with tanks and infantry. Killed Ghandi next because he built 13 wonders in his capital.

    By then I had 20 XCom and GDR's and went and took every last city from Attila and Rammy. Finished about turn 360 with over 100+ happiness and 3600 science.

    The map was amazing. Far better than any dirt I ever generate on my own games.
     
  10. Fluphen Azine

    Fluphen Azine What is Fluphen Azine?

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    Your point is valid but we are talking about Immortal here and I think it has been proven over and over again you can do pretty much anything you want to do on this level and win with ease. My game was not a loss by any means. I just got a bit bored with it and I knew it was going to take me 250-310 turns to win. Im just in a bit of a slump on this game not, by losing, but with my openings. Oh and I was going straight Dom so I was gonna go Full Liberty and mix in Honor... etc. Im not so sure Petra or any wonder is needed at this level too but ofcourse if you want to wonder whore it up, Tradition is valid over Liberty, but in all honesty you can win this map/game with any SP choice. You could even just open up all 4 starting SPs and go from there for a more difficult game as well :)

    Side Note: I got double teamed but never saw a troop. The only time I saw either countries troops is when I marched after them.
     
  11. Iberian

    Iberian Prince

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    This is what has kept me from pre-ordering BE. I don't see how they are going to make a game where the AI is on par with a human. I play Civ for fun and not for the challenge but it is off and on game because after 10 games or so I run out of things to try. I think they need to perfect multiplayer. These challenge games are fun because I get to see what others did, how much more fun have the single player pace with multiplayer AI. Figure that out though and you are on your way to being a multi-millionaire.
     
  12. Gustavus Rex

    Gustavus Rex Prince

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    Easy map yes. Still very impressive game!! :goodjob:
     
  13. Grendeldef

    Grendeldef Trancerelic

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    Some call'em choke points, I take'em as map script failures. It's not so much about whether the map is easy or hard but stupid or totally moronic.

    First problem is the mountain range which divides the continent fairly effectively especially when CSs spawn in choke points. That combined with half-hearted scouting of AI and the result is T150 Pangaea where peeps haven't met each other yet which is beyond stupid
    Second problem is the polar ice touching continental landmass which prevents circumnavigation and makes any sort of navy even more obsolete. Not so much of a problem for the human player but the AI makes ships if there's water regardless of their usefulness or total lack of it - just piles of wasted hammers.

    Third problem is that points 1 & 2 make the map highly imbalanced one. There is a tendency for creating an AI runaway in every game but this shouldn't be fed by the crappy maps - the situation is bad enough already.
    One could argue that an early runaway is the way to make the game more challenging to win but it's a stupid way and then it practically only requires taking one civ out of game to win it. A nice example of this was my recent DCL #9 with Rome.
     
  14. bigwillystyle

    bigwillystyle Chieftain

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    Fun map, thank you for posting it. I took some learnings from DCL#4 [how to archer rush] and applied them here. There is a certain rush from the CHA CHING of taking a city as Songhai.
     
  15. z284pwr

    z284pwr Prince

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    I know this feel. I'm pretty sure my game constantly trolls me with new games. I play the game for fun and don't have much time so if I get total junk starts I don't have any interest in playing, so of course it seems like I reroll more than I have a chance to play a game :mad:
     
  16. lamaros

    lamaros Warlord

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    I was in a similar boat so bought the bullet and got the complete edition from GamersGate. It was $17 US when I got it from there.

    Looking forward to participating in the next one of these!
     
  17. Nigel_Tufnel

    Nigel_Tufnel This game goes to 11

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    t209 - "In the fields the bodies burning, as the war machine keeps turning"
    Spoiler :
    So I got the FP and founded WC, a first for me. Proposed World Religion, so I sit alone in the lunchroom. Decided to ramp up DomV, so got Mil Trad and took Paris t172 and Delhi t187. Gandhi wouldn't accept peace, so I decided to eliminate him before the vote (2nd city had nice bldgs and 2 GWks so I kept it), which I surprisingly won, so I had 6 votes to 5 for everybody else for a while (before France converted). I suppose I should just knock him out as I will have no deals the rest of game, I assume, everybody has Denounced me. Proposed WF. Haven't decided between Order or Autocracy, probably the latter.

    Went E and took Maria's Braga on cotton. Nice 1 tile choke point thru hills. Now it's a slow slog thru forest to her cap - have 7 Cavalry now, 5 uber-XB, building canons for Artillery in 9 turns. My roads didn't keep up, pissed that I deleted Workers 100 turns ago. Plan to build a city 2 E of Mt Sinai - I can't believe nobody settled it. I will need to get Bombers E and am not sure of range limitations... They get more than their range for rebasing???

    I took 2 in Rat, no Sci Theory yet, but still 469 bpt. Still quite a few puppets left. I have the lead in tourism, which is pretty funny. Built Sis Chapel and almost finished Red Fort, have never had that. I forgot about Observatories (doh), so after Chemistry I backtracked. Took Industrialization to find coal, it's under jungle, so 13 turns to mine - it would have been quicker to just bulb towards Radio, which is my usual approach.

    I plan to plow thru Maria and circle N to Siam's cap, he is pretty aggressive with CS Allies. Then either rotate back or finish the circle. Save Pedro for last as he has the GW.
     

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  18. Manpanzee

    Manpanzee Prince

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    I think I'm having a very, very different game from the rest of you. Probably the most unusual start I've played in a while. Let me put it this way: I started building a Settler on Turn ONE.

    Spoiler :
    Basically, I'd prefer to just get a city down and expand instead of wandering. Having a great capital doesn't actually matter THAT much if you don't do Tradition. So I moved in a weird direction and was able to claim two ruins when I settled on Turn 1. One of them jumped me to two pop, so I was able to expand way faster than normally possible.

    Beelined the Oracle to fill Liberty quickly, got a Great Engineer, and put Petra in my Kilimanjaro city. I've actually had a pretty good start, but I absolutely need to expand more. I haven't decided yet whether I want to settle some more or just take cities. Target victory condition will be either Domination or domination-assisted Diplo victory. Annihilating all but one civ while teching to Atomic era isn't out of the question.
     

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  19. Karpyan

    Karpyan Chieftain

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    Maybe the wrong thread, but I just wanted to thank everyone for firstly setting up this Immortal level challenge and for the insightful contributions, discussions and play throughs. It has been great for me to play and learn from everyone's approach, and I now have my first two BNW immortal wins on challenges 2 and 3 after about a one year break. I've learned a lot from the comments. KUTGW
     
  20. Nigel_Tufnel2

    Nigel_Tufnel2 King

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    t252 DomV, score 5,712
    Spoiler :
    I finished my late DomV - this was quite fun! The mega gold for city capture was awesome. Took Lisbon t214, had to plow thru several of Siam's cities in the narrow isthmus up N, so cap didn't fall until t238 just as I got Klauswitz. Then circled back SW to take Pedro with the GW, fell t245. Tromped Attila from the W, to finish t252. I had such a swarm of units that I had a lot of traffic problems. Lots of happiness issues too until I got deeper into Autocracy. Once I built Prora, I went near +50 happy, so annexed almost everything because of the +3 happy Courthouses.

    Made some tech mistakes, as I mentioned I forgot to get Navigation for earlier Observatories, and I Oxforded Flight but had to backtrack a fair bit to find oil. Never even got any Bombers built as the oil didn't come on-line in time.

    This would be an interesting map to go straight DomV as others did. Once I was able to coup/buy most of Siam's allies and then DOW'd him, the game went on auto-pilot. Having the policy for double Mil CS unit gifts was petty juicy too.
     

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