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[RD] The impact on western nations of allowing in millions of Muslim "refugees"

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by CavLancer, Nov 30, 2016.

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Which do you prefer?

  1. The left should continue letting in millions of Muslims even if it means losing power.

    8 vote(s)
    13.3%
  2. The left should curtail the influx, cut down a bit.

    8 vote(s)
    13.3%
  3. No more Muslim immigration.

    18 vote(s)
    30.0%
  4. The premise is wrong, the left can bring in millions of more Muslims and the effect will be small.

    19 vote(s)
    31.7%
  5. Who? Someone coming to dinner granny?

    7 vote(s)
    11.7%
  1. Arwon

    Arwon

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    Mate don't you live in Finland? 97% of you have Finnish, Swedish, Russian or Estonian as mother languages!
     
  2. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

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    Why do I feel a sudden concern that the word "dialectics" is striding purposefully towards this discussion?
     
  3. Hehehe

    Hehehe Emperor

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    Yes mate, I live in Finland. What do these three languages have to do with anything? As for the immigrants, judging by the unemployment rates of certain immigrant groups, I daresay that we do not have a pressing need for their work input.
     
  4. Arwon

    Arwon

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    Those are groups that I'm assuming aren't migrants (maybe the 0.8% who are Estonians, I'm not sure if that's a historical or recent thing). Those figures would seem to indicate that a devastating 3% of the Finnish population are from migrant backgrounds.

    I mean you're the one claiming "we have too many immigrants" and that there's so many migrants (3 whole percent!) that this justifies the claim that they're simultaneously takin' ur jobs and eating all the unemployment benefits.
     
  5. Hehehe

    Hehehe Emperor

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    Well, the number of foreigners is around 5,7 %. Despite being only 5,7 %, those foreigners still manage to commit around 33 % of all rapes in Finland (some groups more over-represented than others). And then there's the whole fiscal side of things, mass unemployment, budget deficits, welfare cuts and that kind of stuff.
     
  6. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

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    I think this was address previously,
    Perhaps Finland is different, and if so, I'm sure you could furnish us with some figures to that effect...?
     
  7. Arwon

    Arwon

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    Lol there's absolutely no way that is true.
     
  8. Hehehe

    Hehehe Emperor

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    Yes, unfortunately it is true. I can post you both crime rates and studies about this. The problem is that they're all in Finnish, I'd have to make a hasty translation or something
     
  9. Arwon

    Arwon

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    17% of Finnish women reported experiencing sexual violence since the age of 15. 11% experienced sexual violence from a partner, 11% from a non-partner.

    Among those non-partners, 37% was an unknown person, 19% was a friend or acquaintance, 11% was a date, 17% was a family member, 17% was in an employment context and 9% was at school.

    About 7% of victims of partner sexual violence contacted the police and about 10% of victims of non-partner sexual violence did so.

    (I should note that the Nordic countries having high report rates on this survey compared to most of Europe is likely to be a product of less stigma around sexual assault victimisation, rather than genuinely higher incidence rates. These types of surveys are still likely to elicit some under-reporting, albeit far less than a reliance on police recorded incidents)
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2016
  10. Funky

    Funky Emperor

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    Why wouldn't it be true? We see similar numbers of overrepresentation in crime throughout Europe, and also, to answer your earlier question, among the aboriginals in Australia.
     
  11. Akka

    Akka Moody old mage.

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    I didn't ignore the rest of your statement, I just highlight that you actually understand that people tend to prefer to be with their own and value their culture and habits, which is isn't an understanding you seemed to extend to native.
     
  12. Arwon

    Arwon

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    See previous post. Most sexual violence (upwards of 80%) is perpetrated by people known to the victims, and the vast majority (80% to 90% in most countries) isn't recorded by law enforcement.
     
  13. Funky

    Funky Emperor

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    Whether the victims know the perpetrator or not does not tell us anything about which groups are more likely to cause the offense.
     
  14. Hehehe

    Hehehe Emperor

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    What kind of logic is that? "I don't care, and neither should you"? Can we apply this same principle to other things? Holocaust? Neither of us are Jewish, it most likely will never affect you. I don't care, and neither should you?
    Very well. I will post news articles to this effect, along with my own translations when needed.
    That figure is from 2005.

    For newer ones, here are a few quotes
    The source that they use is this huge study, which documents immigrant crime. And they found some pretty interesting things. The researchers calculated per-capita crime rates for different immigrant groups, and they included every imaginable variable. Variables such as age and gender distribution of the immigrant population, income level and neighborhood. Now the study itself is about 250 pages long, so I will not translate it in its entirety. But what I can give you are these graphs pulled from the study. I apologize for the lazy translations, but I'm tired. I hope you get the idea anyway.

    You can find the study itself here. There is a short English summary at page 259. Obviously this only applies for the recorded cases. Unreported crimes are unreported (duh). For the graphs see attachment.
     

    Attached Files:

    Funky likes this.
  15. Arwon

    Arwon

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    Yeah. So that's covering the ~10% reported to police. Which is never a representative sample of victimisation and vanishingly unlikely to be reflective of the whole picture.
     
  16. cardgame

    cardgame Obsessively Opposed to the Typical

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    I'm not particularly well versed on the topic of immigration, but I take inspiration from the Eternal September meme. Some degree of assimilation is necessary to successful immigration - they can't just restart the old in a new location. Therefore, some mild limits would be beneficial, though I don't think the numbers currently present through most of western europe are a problem.
     
  17. Princeps

    Princeps More bombs than God

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    The long term collapse of crime is pretty well documented.

    Here is the article for Germany,
    http://www.dw.com/en/crime-rate-drops-to-record-low/a-15093336
    But the story is pretty much the same for every western country.
     
    Agent327 likes this.
  18. west india man

    west india man Immortal

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    Bloody Old Hegelians
     
  19. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    Reads post:

    So basically, you don't acknowledge statistics, have no argument, but do have some mildly interesting anekdotes.

    That's your assumption. So far you haven't shown it to be relevant at all.

    I didn't question any figures.

    No.

    The whole idea of 'integration' is built on quicksand. You may be unfamiliar with the term, but at some point the US were presented a 'melting pot' of immigrants, regardless of the fact that all immigrants after decades of living in the US have their own communities. I have no idea why Europeans should think that labour immigration in the 1960s would result in all these 'guest workers' returning home. After it turned out that, indeed, most came to stay (they worked here, after all), we see the concept of 'integration' emerging.

    That said, I have no problem at all speaking with 'immigrant' neighbours. Nor do I care if they're Muslim or not. And indeed, most of these long-time resident 'immigrants' simply live in Europe peacefully. To some peoples' surprise, they haven't turned to massively joining IS or promoting the installation of sharia laws. (Most Muslim countries don't have sharia law.)

    So what are these perceived 'integration problems'? My impression is, for the most part, the problem is of resident citizens not being able to accept new neighbours. The immigrants I see, seem to be integrating just fine - more so than some of the resident citizens even. And this conforms with the general picture: most 'dangerous, Muslim immigrants' do not cause problems at all. Why would they? I assume immigrants in general simply want to lead their lives in peace, as most people do.

    Not at all: minorities tend to be overrepresented in prison population, which, as I stated, is a fairly well=known statistical fact. I asked if you had any idea as to why that is, and you haven't answered. And, as also mentioned before, there is no real data to show that 'immigrants are overrepresented in prisons'; that's just a claim pulled out of thin air. As you started your comment on what I pointed out: most of these minority inmates aren't immigrants, they are long-time residents.
     
  20. Valka D'Ur

    Valka D'Ur Hosting Iron Pen in A&E Retired Moderator

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    :rolleyes:

    You evidently haven't seen the full-length version, which is over an hour in length (she's not a real blonde, btw; that's obvious).

    It's really nice of you to equate left-wing people who support multiculturalism with this ignorant twit who smiles her vapid, foolish grins and meanders along in a vague, insipid tone of voice how she wants the schools to "teach the controversy" (what controversy? She obviously doesn't think that physical anthropology students are taught about the mistakes and the hoaxes, but I could assure her that yes, those are taught).

    She kept yapping about how the museums should be "filled with evidence" (apparently all the material and research that's already available isn't enough; she expects to trip over it in the street every five minutes - or that's the impression she gives), and when Dawkins told her "it's in the museum, let's go look at it," she whined that he was being "aggressive". :cry:

    We are nothing like this woman who approves of terrorist acts against women's health clinics and harassing women who use their services (she herself ended up before a judge due to her actions in this area).

    Oh, and your "show me the evidence! Show me the evidence!" is a quote from the short video in which Dawkins mimics Wendy Wright. If you're going to falsely denigrate your opponent, at least be honest about which video(s) you're quoting.

    There are times when calling it for what it is, is the only response possible.

    Where did I state that this was anything but my own view?

    Funny thing about claiming "native" status... unless you go back tens of thousands of years, chances are that you're really not the real "natives" of whatever location you're talking about.
     

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