The Infamous Warrior Rush:

[Izanaki]

Yeah right.

To beat 2 archers in a city, you need over 10 warriors to win consistently. If a 3rd is whipped, you might even strike en-route just to get enough warriors to take a single city. It's a little better if you're aggressive, but not much.

Now, if you are on marathon, you're at least benefiting from what amounts to the effect of a military academy (since you don't have other multipliers yet). Even there, a cost effective non-quecha warrior rush is highly implausible. Your tech falls behind just to get another city? You could just...build a settler? Possibly use axes or chariots for a much better kills: investment?

We haven't even gotten into the barbs yet, or how the AI might actually get FOUR archers on emperor on a typical speed.

Building 12-15 warriors doesn't put you a "little" behind. It puts you *very* behind. Also, just the odds of you having an AI that's close enough are low. On prince-, you can get to them even if far because you don't need a ton of warriors...but building double digit warriors is a huge outlay, and it STILL doesn't guarantee success...especially on emperor+. Just opening so it's possible will slow you down if you opt out, too.

Well damn. After reading this I had to try it again, I meant attacking a very nearby enemy with ~5 Warriors while his other Archer is exploring and he hasn't built a third one yet. I only succeeded once in about five tries now. I guess I've just been very lucky in the past with the rolls and usually managed to take the city.

 

[Woodreaux]

I may be mistaken, if so someone please correct me, but I believe the difference in terminology between an assault on a capitol with warriors versus using warriors to capture workers and disrupt rivals' early game is a Rush vs a Choke.

I've heard of viable choke tactics using Quechas, Dog Soldiers, Bowmen and the famous Holkum Choke'm on the Monarch and above.

 

[6K Man]

I've only Warrior rushed on the 18 Civs Earth map as France. I always find the AIs too late on the other maps. Warriors die in bunches vs Archers.

 

[binhthuy71]

I had to try it. Started a game on Noble, Large map, and chose Monty. Built six Quechuas and sent them off toward my nearest neighbor (Shaka). By the time the lads arrived, Shaka had archers. One turn later Shaka still had one archer and I had no Quechuas.

 

[6K Man]

I had to try it. Started a game on Noble, Large map, and chose Monty. Built six Quechuas and sent them off toward my nearest neighbor (Shaka). By the time the lads arrived, Shaka had archers. One turn later Shaka still had one archer and I had no Quechuas.

Ironically, if you have Quechas, you WANT the AI to have Archers. Quechas have no special bonus vs. Warriors, but are +100% (so, 4 vs 3) against Archers.

It could have just been bad luck, of course... how many Archers/Warriors were you up against?

 

[binhthuy71]

My six Quechas were facing four archers. Shaka's capitol was built on a hill so the a's got another 25% which handily whittled down my guys' bonus. It was bad luck all right and proved nothing about the efficacy of a warrior rush. I'm one of those sissies who saves before an attack so I reloaded the save a couple of times and the results were the same: my Quechas were pincushions.

 

[IAM]

@ binhthuy71 you chose Monty and had quechuas?

My personal rule of thumb previous to seige units is two units times their number plus one. Of course that depends on the units but in general with quechuas vs. archers that would be my goal.

 

[binhthuy71]

@ binhthuy71 you chose Monty and had quechuas?.

Huayna Capac, actually. Just returned to the game after a long hiatus so I'm still getting sorted out. A better attacker/defender ratio would have helped to be sure but, Shaka seemed to be pumping out those archers: he had one in production and another unit in the field nearby.

 

[Stoney the I]

My six Quechas were facing four archers. Shaka's capitol was built on a hill so the a's got another 25% which handily whittled down my guys' bonus

if they are on a hill thats always a bit crappy
thats why I recommended the barracks to give the Quechuas the anti-archery bonus. its not great, but it helps. usually i try to have 2 QH's vs 1 Archer

 

[zerocold]

Rarely.

Depends on the map, or if I'm the Incas.

I usually wait for Axemen.

This man is wise

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

I had to try it. Started a game on Noble, Large map, and chose Monty. Built six Quechuas and sent them off toward my nearest neighbor (Shaka). By the time the lads arrived, Shaka had archers. One turn later Shaka still had one archer and I had no Quechuas.

Were you playing quick speed? I've warrior rushed a fairly distant civ on Prince on Normal speed and had no problems. In fact, the AI only had 1 warrior guarding his city which my 4 warriors took with ease.

It seems a bit strange that on Noble, the AI would have archers (and that many archers) that early. Sounds like you're playing Quick speed or are not rushing your warriors properly. Did you choose the highest hammer tile to work while building your warriors?

 

[binhthuy71]

Were you playing quick speed? I've warrior rushed a fairly distant civ on Prince on Normal speed and had no problems. In fact, the AI only had 1 warrior guarding his city which my 4 warriors took with ease.

I was playing on Normal speed. I was so anxious to try the trick (Not to mention returning to the game after a years-long hiatus) that I didn't think to assign my meager pool of citizens to the most productive tiles. Don't have the savegame any more so I can't go back and find out whether Shaka had some good production going on, thus the plethora of archers.
My experience says nothing about the validity of the Warrior Rush. At this point my skills are so modest that I could pop a Modern Armor with World Builder and then lose it to a stack of three Fortified Girl Scouts.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

I was playing on Normal speed. I was so anxious to try the trick (Not to mention returning to the game after a years-long hiatus) that I didn't think to assign my meager pool of citizens to the most productive tiles. Don't have the savegame any more so I can't go back and find out whether Shaka had some good production going on, thus the plethora of archers.
My experience says nothing about the validity of the Warrior Rush. At this point my skills are so modest that I could pop a Modern Armor with World Builder and then lose it to a stack of three Fortified Girl Scouts.

LoL. They just have to sell you some [poisoned] cookies

I've never had a problem with warrior rush on Prince and below. If you really are anxious to try this, do a custom game with a crowded map. Say a standard map with 10 civs. Then regenerate the map until you have a 3 tile (usually a plains hill with forest) in your BFC. Work that tile only and produce only warriors. I prefer marathon speed for war heavy games and since marathon has 3x the # of turns, but only 2x the unit cost, you can really push out a lot of units.

Build like 5 warriors sending the first 4 out to another civ's land (you should be able to find them pretty quickly with that kind of crowded map).

I never crowd the map really (maybe add 1 civ beyond the default) and it works for me, so this should work well for you. Since you're playing noble, take 2 or even 3 enemy capitals and then settle in for some REX to fill the gaps. You'll be well on your way to whatever victory you want while the other AI duke it out over land.

PS: just make sure you build up a fair defensive force and walls in your border cities to try and prevent a DoW.

 

[JonathanStrange]

I love the occasional warrior rush too; but too much rushing makes one weary of Civ. I expect it on MP too.

 

[binhthuy71]

blitzkrieg1980, thanks for the tips. I'll try out your formula when I return home from work. I'll never be a great player because I tend to lose interest around the middle of the game. This early rampaging will suit me just fine.

 

[ABHPage]

I'm playing ym second game and got 4 warriors in little huts, I was exploring the map and stumbled upon the babylonian capitol which was on a mountain with ocean access, rivers around, about 5 sepcial resources, so I killed their only warrior (around 2800 bc) and decided to keep it. It did cost me maintenance but I used it as a worker spammer with whipping and quickly made routes linking it to my capitol as well as citites in between and now I've got a huge empire. It did boost my early game at the cost of a few warriors I would've deleted anyways. At worst I could've burned it down and not worry about them !

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

blitzkrieg1980, thanks for the tips. I'll try out your formula when I return home from work. I'll never be a great player because I tend to lose interest around the middle of the game. This early rampaging will suit me just fine.

If you want a real fun game that you can gallivant around the world with, start a Noble Earth 18 custom game as Julius Caesar of Rome with Aggressive AI on.

Do the warrior rush by working the marble tile (3). Rush France/Spain/Germany and tech towards sailing so you can rush London. I've seen Prince games where London STILL only had 1 warrior when I sent my 2 galleys with warriors to capture her.

Paris has one of the best sites in the game. I ignore the wine that's there and build workshops on that and the other grassland. Berlin is a great cottage city and Rome is an awesome GP farm. Madrid makes for another great military city.

If you do it this way, you can spend the rest of the game building up a massive army of Praets and catapults and happily taking over the planet

 

[binhthuy71]

If you want a real fun game that you can gallivant around the world with, start a Noble Earth 18 custom game as Julius Caesar of Rome with Aggressive AI on.

Even better!

 

[IAM]

PS: just make sure you build up a fair defensive force and walls in your border cities to try and prevent a DoW.

Do walls and castles increase your place on the power graph? And Chichen Itza for that matter?

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Yes, and barracks do as well. I hardly ever build walls and castles myself though.