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The inhumane conditions of Bradley Manning's detention

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by nikosison, Dec 15, 2010.

  1. Ajidica

    Ajidica High Quality Person

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    Given the opinion of the military toward him, does trying him in a military court really give him an imparcial trial, which is his Constitutional right?

    I understand the solitary confinement argument (I personaly feel that they are being too stringent about it, but that is neither here nor there.), but what does banning sheets/pillows and watching him with a camera have to do with flight risk or for his own protection?

    I'm not objecting to him being held with strict security precautions, but rather to the type of precautions that are being undertaken.
     
  2. NovaKart

    NovaKart شێری گەورە

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    I read a book about the Jonestown massacre and I don't remember but about it but from what I do remember it was very likely that a large number of the people there were forced to drink poison.

    The strange thing is, many people praised Bob Jones before he was known to be a dangerous cult leader, he stood up against racism for one thing. People had no idea how dangerous he was.

    The Heaven's Gate cult might be a better example of misguided voluntary suicide.
     
  3. JollyRoger

    JollyRoger Slippin' Jimmy Supporter

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    Give me a guitar, a bible, and a couple of months and I can have a cult.
     
  4. MobBoss

    MobBoss Off-Topic Overlord

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    I see you have taken my comments as an absolute. Thats an error. Impartial, in the military, means that the jury will be made up of soldiers that are his peers that have never served with him, nor know anything personally about him. Courts martial have pretty much the same jury selection process and venue setting as regular courts. Of course it can be impartial.

    Aside from an opinion piece from salon.com by someone who thinks this guy is a hero, has the sheets/pillows thing been verified by any additional preferably impartial source?
     
  5. wolfigor

    wolfigor Emperor

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    No, not really.
    I started making searches about it, and most of articles are just copycats.
    The information we get about the "inhumane" conditions of his detention do not come come official sources but from the mouth of a friend of Manning's (David House, a computer researcher from Boston who visits Manning twice a month).
    This is the main if not the only source of information about Manning's conditions that I could find.
    According to the same source the isolation detention was due to security reasons (Manning's safety), no pillow etc. due to suicide watch (later lifted).
    Now he thinks it's due to "punishment".

    the following article contains a lot of quotations directly from this friend of Manning:
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/dec/16/bradley-manning-health-deteriorating
     
  6. Hehehe

    Hehehe Emperor

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    So US Supreme court decision is irrelevant?

    Feel free to quote the whole ruling if you think it proves me wrong. If you're actually going to do it, please also bold the key parts which prove me wrong.

    He is being charged. But he has not been convicted (yet, at least)

    Violent offenders are in solitary confinement only because they, unlike Manning, are a threat to other inmates when they are around them.

    I never said solitary confinement is not torture to violent inmates. I said violent inmates are in solitary confinement because they are a threat to others. You're twisting my words.

    It's not just my opinion. The EU, UN and the US Supreme court agree with me.
     
  7. MobBoss

    MobBoss Off-Topic Overlord

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    Non-violent offenders can also be segregated in such a fashion if its deemed the general population would be a threat to them as well.


    Point being solitary isnt just for violent offenders.
     
  8. Hehehe

    Hehehe Emperor

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    If Manning is in solitary confinement for his own safety, then I believe he has (should have?) a say in the matter? And did the army (or where ever he is held?) say he is in solitary for his own safety?
     
  9. Mise

    Mise isle of lucy

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  10. Bamspeedy

    Bamspeedy We'll dig up the road!

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    http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=309&invol=227

    The case was not about solitary confinement, but about people being interviewed as suspects all day, every day for a week trying to get a confession. Solitary was not being used on these suspects and doesn't appear to have been brought up at all until the person who wrote the court opinion inserted it.

    Solitary confinement is only mentioned once in the entire court opinion, and it doesn't refere to 'prolonged' solitary confinement, but just solitary confinement of any length. So I guess Britain has been torturing the wikileaks guy then? Since he was in solitary 23.5 hours/day.

    So, yes it is a one-liner out of a court opinion like Pat said.

     
  11. bhsup

    bhsup Deity

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    He's accused of one of the worst things imaginable. Betraying your country.
     
  12. Dachs

    Dachs Hero of the Soviet Union

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    a post-nationalist like cheezass probably doesn't think betraying the government of one's country is all that horrible, dude
     
  13. Flying Pig

    Flying Pig Utrinque Paratus

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    If he's deemed to be of a mental state which is self-destructive - potentially suicidal, in other words - I don't think we should be asking his opinion on whether or not he should be prevented from harming himself. And I don't think that solitary confinement - except for a very long time on end - constitutes torture. It's not nice, but it's done with the support of psychologists who make sure nothing really bad happens.

    WAH! Gentlemen, we have an NKVD officer on the boards!

    He's accused of doing it! If we could say that being accused of something means it's acceptable to treat your rights differently to anyone else, think for half a second about the implications of that! Innocent until proven guilty - that's completely innocent until proven guilty, not 'well he probably did it anyway, and even if he did he must be a bad egg to get arrested'!
     
  14. bhsup

    bhsup Deity

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    :lol: Other direction!

    And yet, again, we don't let murderers and rapists walk around outside of jail while awaiting trial, so why should this guy?
     
  15. MeteorPunch

    MeteorPunch #WINNING

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    He's betraying our country by informing us that our country is betraying us. He should really pay for that!

    Seriously though why do our leaders have no one to be accountable for? Why aren't Bush, Cheney, etc^ spending some time in solitary?

    This system is currently messed up.
     
  16. GhostWriter16

    GhostWriter16 Deity

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    No, betraying your country is hardly the worst thing imaginable, in fact it can be a good thing. Of course, I'm no Nationalist, but I do love my country and I do frown on the idea of fighting against it, but there are much worse things out there to do.

    I think the Federal Government is keeping far too much info classified. And this question only applies to you really, but where does the constitution give the Federals the right to keep info classified, or to prosecute people for revealing it?

    Since he is in the military, I do believe he should be held to secrecy of confidential info, and should be punished on those grounds (If the US Govt was doing something illegal it should be revealed, though if he reveals it he knows he will be punished), but it isn't treason according to the Constitution.

    Even if he shouldn't (Unless the US Government was doing something illegal, he should be, but it should not be considered treason), then he still knew he was going too. The US government doesn't like when their authoritarian nature is revealed.

    Bush and Cheney do not need to be in solitary, because they did not commit any violent crimes (Unless you consider Op. Iraqi Freedom a "Crime":lol:)

    Frankly, he would have deserved impeachment for the USA Patriot Act, but then Cheney would have been president and it would have accomplished zero.

    And besides, if Bush belongs in prison, so does Obama. And so far, neither has been impeached, let alone convicted. So no.

    This I agree with:goodjob:
     
  17. eyrei

    eyrei Deity Retired Moderator

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    That is so far down my list I'm not sure it would ever come up for consideration when making a decision like this.

    And besides, he thought he was doing the right thing and probably was.

    The military is going to lose jurisdiction in this case, which will severely impede procuring a guilty verdict, if they don't stop treating him like a terrorist. He obviously has made a lot of people very patriotic people very angry, but our laws are in place precisely to keep anger out of our legal proceedings. There is no judicial grey area here like there was in Gitmo, so soon the government is going to try him as is his right and if there is any question that he was tortured he will walk...or is satisfying your anger more important than the rule of law?
     
  18. GhostWriter16

    GhostWriter16 Deity

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    Actual betrayal of your country would be on the list probably, but certainly not #1.

    But he's not a traitor.

    Probably not unless the info had good reason to be revealed. But he's still not a traitor.

    I personally see no reason he should be tried by the military. Heck, the entire concept of trying by the military is simply there so they don't have to prove you guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Its disgusting.
     
  19. Formaldehyde

    Formaldehyde Both Fair And Balanced

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    Ironically, Putin claims to handle "worst things imaginable" much more humanely than many US reactionaries would:

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-st...ice-no-longer-kills-traitors-115875-22788925/

    And no, I really don't think releasing these documents, or even exposing 10 Russian "sleeper spies" in the US, even comes close to being the "worst thing imaginable". Many people said the same thing about Daniel Ellsberg when he released the Pentagon Papers. Now, most people consider him to be a hero for doing so. I certainly do.
     
  20. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

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    Betraying the state, which is a distinct entity. There is, as been said so many times before, nothing more patriotic than dissent...
     

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