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The Intelligence War, best way to level-up spies?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by Laurwin, Feb 14, 2014.

  1. Laurwin

    Laurwin Prince

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    What's the fastest way to get high level spies? I've usually put my spies into my own capital (the first spy - because hey, spies are immortal, therefore KNOWLEDGE and WORK EXPERIENCE in espionage is priceless!)

    High level spies are crucial sometimes in late-game for couping enemy CS, for diplo win.

    Does it benefit your levelling-up of spies, if you build constabulary line of buildings? Or what exactly does the building line do? Does it simply make it slower for AI spies to steal tech?
     
  2. Resipsa

    Resipsa King

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    Espionage is highly level dependant and tech parity dependant. On Deity and to a lesser extent Immortal you need to reach tech parity through espionage. Don't level them in your capital click on demographics and find out who the tech leader is put your first spy in his capital. Once you've stolen 2 techs your spy will be level 3 and you can coup at a higher percentage or flip CS more effectively however be certain you check you spy to see if they've build constabulary or police station it will take a massive amount of time to steal meaning you'll need to move your spy to a different capital.

    Later in the game once you've eclipsed the AI in tech you can then level your spys in your capital and then once they are level 2 or 3 send them out to coup and or flip CS.

    Don't be afraid to get your Spys killed on a high percentage coup!

    Anti-Spy buildings simply waste your hammers in my opinion the AI can't tech properly in the late game so you'll never need to worry about them outteching you unless they are on a rampage and are conquering half the world. I might build them as Venice to build the NIA simply to get the extra spy and the upgrade on existing spys. I get alot of spys killed in coups but that's what they are there for late game.
     
  3. neilkaz

    neilkaz King

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    I'd always try to steal a tech or two early on unless I am a run away tech leader (that isn't happening on Immortal) and there's likely nothing meaningful to steal.

    A couple questions however concerning negative diplomacy from getting caught.

    1) Does the nagative modifer from getting caught ever go away? If caught, I always promise to never spy on that civ again and move my spy instantly. What happens if I say that my spies go where they want and leave my spy there?

    2) I presume as usual if you promise not to spy anymore but spy anyhow that there's a big diplo penalty for lieing?

    Thx .. neilkaz ..
     
  4. budweiser

    budweiser King of the Beers

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    You cant spy from the tech leader. He will kill you because he uses counter-spy. Steal from number 2 until you get warned, then move elsewhere.
     
  5. Resipsa

    Resipsa King

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    1. You'll end the game before the penalty goes away but it will reduce the negativity over time from bright red to pink, the AI builds antispy buildings and puts a spy there to kill ours. Move your spy

    2. You'll usually get denounced or DOW'ed but more importantly you run the risk of getting your spy killed when you could have just switched cities or AI civ.
     
  6. Resipsa

    Resipsa King

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    In my experience you can usually get away with a few techs without getting your spy killed in the leaders cap.
     
  7. budweiser

    budweiser King of the Beers

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    I seem to remember getting killed quite often, so I haven't even tried for ages. I may give it a try next time and see how it goes.
     
  8. mikeville

    mikeville Chieftain

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    Correct.

    The issue with this, though, is that later on, if your spy is running counter-intelligence in one of your cities and catches their spy stealing from you, you've technically "spied" on them, and you get the massive diplomacy hit from breaking your promise (of not spying on them).
     
  9. _megafone_

    _megafone_ Warlord

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    Highest pop enemy city in the game, except for the tech leader's cap, which will most often have a counterspy. If there's a huge pop city that is NOT a cap, that's better, since it most often won't have neither counterspies, nor constabulary.
     
  10. neilkaz

    neilkaz King

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    WOW .. that sounds like a bug. But I did once wonder why I noticed this diplo hit one game a hundred turns or so after bringing back my spy.
     
  11. Cromagnus

    Cromagnus Deity

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    I don't use #1 tech in the demographics. I use the score display to check the "points from technology"... #1 might be shared between 3 different civs. Then check "score from cities". This will tell you who's generating the most science/city. (Usually whoever has the GL)

    You won't get nearly as much benefit from a wide civ as a tall civ.

    However, counterspying is occasionally an issue. To me it's about 50/50. Some games I get countered, some I don't. But the advantage of checking score like this is you can pick your target more carefully. For example, you might prefer to steal from the warmonger who has almost the same exact tech score as the peacemonger, depending on which techs you wish to steal. I then sort by potential, keeping in mind which civs had the highest score from technology, and I do try to avoid the "obvious" counterspy city. (IE the biggest city in the tech leader's empire)

    It's not a perfect science though. /shrug
     
  12. phillipwyllie

    phillipwyllie Wannabe Deity

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    If you leave some low level techs unreached then you'll steal them pretty quickly, thus leveling your first spy quickly. I usually go from lowest to highest in the tech lead, moving my spy when I get the notification I can't steal any more. As pointed out the tech leader(s) usually have a counter spy in their biggest city.

    If you're tech leader then counter espionage is the way, but I find that due the RNG in the game it's a hit and a miss affair. I always forgive civs whose spys I catch, and I always "let the transgression slide".
     
  13. Cromagnus

    Cromagnus Deity

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    Actually you can steal expensive techs quickly. The time seems to be based on number of techs they have that you don't, but which one you steal I think is random. I've gotten navigation and archaeology from tech steals, entered the renaissance through tech steals etc.
     
  14. docbud

    docbud Emperor

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    If that were true, then how can the AI steal a bunch of techs from me when I'm the tech leader and I have a counter-spy?

    Anyway as others have said--one can steal a few techs from the AI tech leader, but that's about it. Although I am usually the tech leader, I've had a few games where I was not. I stole one or two techs and then moved elsewhere.

    I always forgive the AI from stealing from me, which gets old after a while. After the third or fourth time, I usually tell them to quit stealing from me (which doesn't do any good).

    I don't like the forgiveness thing. You're basically saying, "hey there--feel free to steal all my technology."

    Note: I only play on Prince so I'm not an expert.
     
  15. Laurwin

    Laurwin Prince

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    high level spies help you coup the "espionage violator's" city state allies. Purpose victory condition is diplomacy victory.

    You can forgive them for the offence BUT you still get spy xp for your own spies and you still kill their spies for a short while. :goodjob:
     
  16. docbud

    docbud Emperor

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    ^^Yeah--eventually I kill their spies :)

    I had a weird situation last night. I was playing as Dido and had the tech lead. Had a level one spy in the capital. All of a sudden I get notified that I killed two separate AI spies in the same turn. My spy turned level 3 just like that.

    But I've had games where I never stopped a single AI spy from stealing.
     
  17. Karmah

    Karmah Emperor Supporter

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    yeah spies in defense is a kind of a snowball situation. If you kill their spy , you get a level 2 spy vs level 1 spies , and if you don't , his spy is level 2 vs your level1 and you ll likely get stolen again bringing his spy level3 against your still level 1 spy.
     
  18. docbud

    docbud Emperor

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    ^^Yup! I've had games where the same AI civ stole several techs from me and I could not stop him. They had a level three against my level one. Eventually my spy caught him and killed him.

    Took a long time though.
     
  19. Magma_Dragoon

    Magma_Dragoon Reploid

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    Counter spies have 30%ish (34? IIRC) chance to catch a spy + something like 5% per rank.
     

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