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The Iroquois

Discussion in 'Leader Balance' started by Edaka, Aug 12, 2015.

  1. Gothic_Empire

    Gothic_Empire AKA, Ramen Empire

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    I think it's just easier to give the Iroquois a less random benefit; city connections could form from connected city borders instead of uninterrupted lines of forest. (It's not like they're tree-surfing, right?).
     
  2. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    I think its fine. It is interesting and quite potent, giving the Iroquois a vast network of potential roads and movement tiles.

    G
     
  3. Gothic_Empire

    Gothic_Empire AKA, Ramen Empire

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    Can we at least have roads without adjacent roads point in the direction of adjacent forests / jungle? :lol:
     
  4. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Nope, can't control graphics.

    G
     
  5. Gothic_Empire

    Gothic_Empire AKA, Ramen Empire

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  6. infidel88

    infidel88 Prince

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    My point was - make Iroq civ that doesn't want to cut the damn forests/jungles instead of growing new ones. I think we can safely assume, Iroq can use some of the goods that plantation provides without chopping forest. That's their thing! They are (somewhat) people of the forest. While non-improved food resources stay competitive enough thanks to longhouse, you simply have to cut down a lot of your neighbourhood if it has luxuries.

    So by XVI-XVII century you either cut all your precious forests around you or you are left without luxuries and with non-competitive tiles, as you can't build lumbermill over spices or silk. So due to game mechanics you are working against your UA.
     
  7. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    But you can't really have a plantation in a jungle, that makes no real sense.
     
  8. kenneth1221

    kenneth1221 Warlord

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    Would it be OP if Longhouses connected all plantation luxuries in range?
     
  9. infidel88

    infidel88 Prince

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    Fair enough, we can call it otherwise (without UI hopefully) - gathering spot, jungle warehouse, whatever. Just something that wouldn't make game mechanics make you work against your UA.

    Ok, it's fun to have wonderfufl superproductive 4f/3p/1g tiles without workers until you realise you cripple yourself from happiness, from trade and from improved diplo relationships. And gold!
     
  10. Raz0r0x

    Raz0r0x Chieftain

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    I actually rather like this idea, as it would give the Longhouse something unique rather than just extra yields.
     
  11. infidel88

    infidel88 Prince

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    That is actually a great idea and it wouldn't be OP given two conditions:
    1) only resources on your tiles, not all in range, which is what I think you meant already;
    2) forest based resources would be connected upon researching bronze working (when normal civs can chop forests) and jungle upon researching iron working (chop jungle);

    Yes, it would give Iroq extra boost early on and make longhouse awfully strong, but it wouldn't be that strong in later eras anyway. #makeamericagreenagain
     
  12. Galbias

    Galbias Prince

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    If it's technically feasible that would actually be a really neat idea, giving Iroquois a reason to not chop forests is pretty thematically sound too. It'll probably fall off later if it isn't given some adjustments (with improvements like Plantation, you won't get any benefits from technologies, just the buildings that boost the resource, and buildings that boost forest which is just +1 food/prod/science total plus resource specific yields, and you can't build a Lumber Mill on resource tiles afaik).

    Being able to plant forests would also be really nice but training AI to use it properly would likely be a lot of work, might just be best left to other mods (I know there's at least one).
     
  13. thunderbird_14

    thunderbird_14 Prince

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    Tomatekh released Kuikuro which is another forest-centric civ that does not chop forests
     
  14. bosna

    bosna Chieftain

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    How about the iroquese plant forests when they settle new cities? Would help them to settle good spots which are more or less forestless. More forests spawns with better settlers (dont remember the name right now).
     
  15. dunkleosteus

    dunkleosteus Roman Pleb

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    Being from the great lakes region (although not on the Iroquois side of the lakes) they factor into the history of our local first nations pretty heavily (although usually by killing them). Anyway, a huge part of the culture of the first nations here is built around rivers and waterways. The great lakes dominate the area so heavily and the canoe routes were so important. If you're looking for non-forest balance, I'd suggest giving them a river or lake bonus. Perhaps Songhai's river city connections are too OP, but they'd feel pretty damn accurate for a great lakes civ.
     
  16. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    I would translate this into a no embark movement cost, so you move faster on inland seas and great lakes, that usually forces the player to make turnarounds.
     
  17. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    That's the Danish UA.

    I don't feel that the Iroquois need anything at the moment. They're consistently a top-tier AI civ.
     
  18. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    I wasn't saying Iroquois need that, only that dunkleou...(whatever) was proposing, fits more with this idea.
     
  19. infidel88

    infidel88 Prince

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    I'm preparing progress guide with Iroquis and is it me or workers/settlers behave different entering jungle/forest than war units?
     
  20. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    Yes they do, because they don't get the promotion (civs can't have promotions?) so forest outside of your territory should still count as normal forests.
     

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