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The Iroquois

Discussion in 'Leader Balance' started by Edaka, Aug 12, 2015.

  1. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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  2. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    They never had woodsman, but all iroquois unit gets woodsman for free. They've actually always been a really lackluster CS UU.
     
  3. matlajs

    matlajs King

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    actually most UUs whose power is tied with UA or UB ( japan, zulus, denmark) are half as effective without it. thought, samurai is cool anyway.
     
  4. infidel88

    infidel88 Prince

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    Can you give Longhouse some bonus to camps like herbalist has?
     
    LukaSlovenia29 likes this.
  5. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    Id say this is a bug, you could post it in Github.
     
    LukaSlovenia29 likes this.
  6. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    It's not a bug - the longhouse gets flat bonuses to jungle/forest regardless of resource presence, and at a 1:1 ratio. Camp bonus put them over the top.

    G
     
  7. Enginseer

    Enginseer Salientia of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Should be addressed in the civilopedia that they lose the camp bonus before we get another "bug" happen.
     
    vyyt and ElliotS like this.
  8. phantomaxl1207

    phantomaxl1207 King

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    I suppose only Ivory and Bison will miss out provided the map generates Forest on the other Camp Resources.
     
  9. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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  10. Rekk

    Rekk Emperor

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    How does the Woodsman Promotion interact with the Iroquois UA? Ignore Terrain cost in Forest and double movement in forest should mean that a unit can move four times in a flat-terrain forest, but this is not the case:
    18-3-20 Iroquois Movement.png
    Units (for example, Warrior) without the Scout "Ignores Terrain Cost" ability function the exact same way.

    A unit that enters the forest from a non-forest tile loses a full 1 point of movement instead of the 0.83 shown here.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2018
    Bromar1 likes this.
  11. rubixx

    rubixx Chieftain

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    Yeah there is something bugged with the movement, especially if you get the Trailblazer 1 promotion. It actually reduces the movement your scouts have in forest.
     
  12. andersw

    andersw Emperor

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    (Not sure if I was to post on leader or strategy but I went for here and rewrote more leader specific.)

    Been looking at this leader just this week,I don't think I've played or considered playing with Hiawatha before.
    The first game I had to give up because I snowballed too early (king difficulty).
    Admittedly I've been rerolling for a heavy forest/jungle start.
    With a those kind of starts this is a serious powerhouse in the early game.

    Major strengths (apart from sporting a mohawk)
    Longhouse longhouse longhouse.
    You want early calendar, it is important, longhouses are on the verge of broken good.
    When longhouses (UU herbalist) kick in the production skyrockets, forest plains are 2f/3h and forest grassland/jungle tiles 3f/2h with zero worker turns invested.
    They also give 1culture (equal to arena) 1science (equal to council) 1faith (half a shrine).
    Forest tiles later have a second spike potential with metal casting and lumber mills.
    Note that last time someone posted about this leader there was no lumber mill triangle boost.

    It is extremely low on early worker needs as you want to keep a lot of calendar resources unimproved if possible.
    No need for early roads, all forest/jungle tiles count as a road tile which also cuts down on expenses for road maintainance.
    Strong UU that doesn't need any iron.
    Defending home territory (aka forest/jungle land) and conqeurring neighbours in forest/jungle is a lot easier thanks to free woodsman promo, it also makes dealing with barbarians easier.

    Major drawbacks
    its all tied to forest jungle
    if you want to warfare outside of that make sure to be ahead (or just be a very good player)
    if you don't want to scum for a forest/jungle start you can get a lackluster early game when they are supposed to shine.

    Religion
    The obvious religious choice is god of renewal which is a very strong forest/jungle pantheon.

    Ifs and buts
    On higher difficulties and on diety in particular an iron working UU can be too late/irrelevant.
    All the uniques are Ancient Era and other than woodsman promo you have nothing after that (apart from hopefully some very nice forest cities).
    There is possibly a bug with woodsman+trailblazer I interaction or its intentional that the game does not cut movement to 1/4 in forests.
    With calendar resources in forest/jungle you will have to choose between improving or keep an awesome forest/jungle tile.

    Have you had any recent experience with Hiawatha?
    Good/bad? I feel he's usually underperformed as AI in my games.
     
  13. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    I will say if he declares on you and you share a forest border....its terrifying. If you play with quick moves like I do, he's like a ghost. Your units seem nice and safe, and suddenly they are dead! And you have no idea what happened, as Mr (I have roads everywhere) just darts in and out.
     
  14. phantomaxl1207

    phantomaxl1207 King

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    Iroquois have a very potent start with their Longhouse. You will very easily lead in Production. Of course this is all dependent on having good sized Forest/ Jungles nearby. I disagree on leaving Plantations Unimproved; the Longhouse does grant them Yields.

    God of Commerce could also work as a good Pantheon as you can have newly Founded Cities Connected right away.
     
    JamesNinelives and CrazyG like this.
  15. Hippie_Peace_man

    Hippie_Peace_man Chieftain

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    I played Iroquois on a Pangaea map and I had my quickest domination victory I've ever had. I conquered the whole world before the Industrial Era. The reason for this is that on Pangaea maps, Forests/jungles usually get an entire quadrant of the map dedicated to them, so it allowed me to snowball out of control, This was worsened by each of my neighboring AIs declaring war on me to prevent me from snowballing, but never together, so I would just end up defeating them and growing stronger.
    For that reason, I no longer play on Pangaea maps, because I've realized how easily early game civs can snowball.
     
  16. chicorbeef

    chicorbeef Emperor

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    Is there a particular reason why Iroquois still have +20% CS near natural wonders? I don't know any historical relevance, but I feel like the Iroquois are situational enough as is and don't really need this.
     
  17. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    A different civ had it (Polynesia I think?) but the bonuses got shuffled around. I think the logic is that the code is there so might as well use it.
     
  18. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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  19. CppMaster

    CppMaster Emperor

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    Use a code just because it exists? Lol
     
  20. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    Hot damn, I actually had forgotten they had that bonus!
     

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