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[RD] The Israel/Palestine Quarantine Thread

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Arakhor, Nov 20, 2018.

  1. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy The long wait

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    I see no particular reason to limit the statement in that fashion.

    If we think it's inevitable, we should pray it happens soon, when it's theoretically possible only one gets a 10,000,000C sunbath.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2018
  2. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Deity

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    One path. Withdraw US protection and impose UN sanctions. Iraq isn't a trainwreck just because. They were once the supreme military and economic power in the Middle East. Sanctions destroyed the economy, the military started to disintegrate, military adventurism seemed like the only way to keep the peace and that only led to defeat and worse sanctions; down the rabbit hole they went. If economic sanctions are put in place and enforced Israel's strong economy folds like a tent in a matter of months.
     
  3. Silurian

    Silurian Deity

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    South Africa was the regional superpower and had support from the UK and USA.

    When the Palestinian's start asking for one person one vote Israel will lose support.

    By 2050 it is probable that all the people who survived the holocaust and the 1948 war will be dead. They will just be some of the more recent low points in history. People will ask why are the Palestinians still suffering because of something that happened in Europe a hundred years ago.
     
  4. innonimatu

    innonimatu Deity

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    Yes, they are too small to be self-sufficient, and depend almost exclusively in american support. That is the reason why they're expending so much influence on trying to get their pawns in the US to make the boycott Israel movement illegal. It is a big risk as that kind of laws will be seen as unconstitutional.
     
  5. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Deity

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    The only part of "support" that is absolutely essential is their bought and paid for veto power on the UN security council. Without that they would have been completely isolated a hundred times over by now.
     
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  6. Silurian

    Silurian Deity

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    Israel will get support from governments nearly to the point that it has no choice but to make a peace deal with the Palestinians or give them the vote. Support will be hollowed out from below.

     
  7. Snerk

    Snerk Smeghead

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    I'm not saying they'd remain a regional superpower, I'm just not sure whom among their neighbours would be able to defeat them. Again, horrible track records when it comes to the ability to wage offensive wars. Another point would be their willingness to do so. Geopolitics in the Middle East is an intricate affair with gazillions of factors and loyalties at play. Look at the Saudis, they sympathise with their arab bretheren in Palestine but at the same time they're sporting a major bromance with Israel's far right government whom they consider their close ally.

    But it may be that I'm underestimating the importance of future US support for Israels continued existence in it's current form. I.e. a non-democratic apartheid Jewish state. I don't see any immediate reasons why that support would diminish though. Unconditional support for Israel seems like a constant in US congress.
     
  8. Silurian

    Silurian Deity

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    South Africa was still a regional superpower when the regime changed and it is extremely likely that Israel will also remain a regional superpower.

    Why do you think supporters of Israel try to link the BDS movement to antisemitism.
    When there are antisemitic attacks why do they say that this proves that Jews need Israel to protect them.

    They are worried that what happened to South Africa will happen to them and people will treat them the same way. They have got to convince the the Jewish people living outside Israel that they need Israel as an escape route rather than being an embarrassment.
     
  9. Snerk

    Snerk Smeghead

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    Yeah no I essentially agree with this but I suspect the BDS movement won't gain enough momentum to force Israel to change. It will keep butting it's head against a US congressional pro Israel majority and conflicting geopolitical interests of other major parties involved.
    For instance, the "peace nation" Norway has until very recently been selling B-material war equipment to Saudi Arabia. The general political consensus here is that their war in Yemen is fundamentally immoral, but money talks.
     
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  10. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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    The number of Palestinians displaced by early Israeli settlement was small in comparison to all the area that nearby Arab states had available. They could easily have assimilated the population.

    Now you can say that it wasn't their responsibility. And in the narrow sense, this is true. However, what the Israelis did to the Palestinians, while in no sense right, was driven by desperation and a collective trauma almost beyond human imagining. Only later, as the crisis dragged on and on and on did it come more from cruelty. What the Arab states did to the Palestinians was straight out cruelty from the get go, and the inhuman calculation of that cruelty shouldn't be discounted. They have now punished near 4 generations of Palestinians for really no other reason than to make trouble for the Israelis.
     
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  11. Silurian

    Silurian Deity

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    The land area of the neighbouring Arab states where the Palestinians were driven too is not relevant, what counts is the ability to accept refugees.
    If there are no areas to farm without taking land off your own farmers what do you do. If there are no empty houses where do they live. Where do they work.

    The number of Palestinians destabilised Jordan and Lebanon.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_Civil_War
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September

    It is easy to blame Israel's neighbours but I note that you are unable to state that the USA would take a similar sized influx.
     
  12. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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    And then there's Egypt, Iraq, Libya, Saudi Arabia...
     
  13. Senethro

    Senethro Overlord

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    Which of those were stable nations during the time period and which of them were which were autocracies that didn't even pretend to have an obligation to their own citizens, let alone those of neighbouring nations?
     
  14. Silurian

    Silurian Deity

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    They were all unstable.
     
  15. tetley

    tetley Head tea leaf

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    But don't worry about Mossad. They would never destabilize anybody.
     
  16. Senethro

    Senethro Overlord

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    This being the case, is it fair to blame these nations for not accepting the refugees, just because they happen to also be brown and muslim? (because lets be honest, the racial element is most definitely there)
     
  17. Silurian

    Silurian Deity

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    Well regarding muslim don't forget eastern Iraq and Saudi Arabia have large numbers of Shia so the Sunni Palestinians would not get on.
    They most likely would not have been accepted by the more strict Sunni in the rest of Saudi.
     
  18. PPQ_Purple

    PPQ_Purple Techpriest Engineer

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    I am somewhat confused as to how you people even got into this tangent. I mean, why is it even remotely relevant that these nations did little or nothing to help the Palestinians? All the blame for their plight lies solely on the ones who caused it and not on the bystanders who did nothing about it. Like, if this were a murder you'd blame the murderer and not the bystander who didn't want to get involved.
     
  19. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Deity

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    That leads to having to face the reality that "Hey, we're sorry Jews. Here, we'll give you these other people's land as compensation for what we did," was a half baked and totally immoral scheme from the jump.
     
  20. PPQ_Purple

    PPQ_Purple Techpriest Engineer

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    Yes, yes it does.
     

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