[RD] The Israel/Palestine Quarantine Thread

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Arakhor, Nov 20, 2018.

  1. Snerk

    Snerk Smeghead

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    Personally I think they should have placed the holy land in Ulster, Northern Ireland. A sort of theme park for secular conflict.
     
  2. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Deity

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    In my younger days I used to advocate for dusting the entire "holy land" with Plutonium. That way, rather than fight over which religion had the better claim on it anyone who wanted to badly enough could go there and meet their god.
     
  3. Estebonrober

    Estebonrober Deity

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    I think we could just cede western Florida to them, seems like its already theirs by property rights standards anyways. /s
     
  4. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Deity

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    More or less similar to the argument used by Balian in the movie Kingdom of Heaven to get the therms he wanted of Saladin:
    “Before I lose it, I will burn it to the ground. Your holy places – ours. Every last thing in Jerusalem that drives men mad.”
    A lot of the movie is historical not that correct to sell better, but this threat seems to have been used by the historical Balian.
    https://3brothersfilm.com/blog/2012...-the-historical-accuracy-of-kingdom-of-heaven

    I do not believe that the current state of Israel, with its current policies, will have a long life. Perhaps another 50-100 years or so.
    The climate desertification will make the basic economy too vulnerable for sabotage. And advanced tools to sabotage will grow in variety and will have lower technical barriers to apply.
     
  5. innonimatu

    innonimatu Deity

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    Has anybody seen that "leaked" documentary about Israel's lobbies in the US?
    The Lobby, ep1
     
  6. Cloud_Strife

    Cloud_Strife Deity

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    I do wonder what the world what say if the shoe was on the other foot; Palestinians breaking into Jewish Israeli houses and evicting them, Palestinians casually destroying infrastructure in primarily Jewish Israeli communities, etc.

    It would certainly raise alarm.
     
  7. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Deity

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  8. cardgame

    cardgame Obsessively Opposed to the Typical

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    But is he wrong? This third party wants to know.
     
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  9. Mouthwash

    Mouthwash Escaped Lunatic

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    Given that the founders of the country were explicit atheists, why is this question being asked?
     
  10. Ajidica

    Ajidica High Quality Person

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    Menachem Begin and the rest of the Irgun were atheists?*
    Though I will pre-emptively say I look forward to your inevitable attempts to disassociate the Yishuv from the murderous terrorists of the Irgun and their similar ilk.

    *Yes, I know all about the proud tradition of secular Jewish Socialism in Israel, such as with Golda Meir, and the role it played in the founding of Israel. Doesn't exclude the religious aspect to its more active, shall we say, proponents.
     
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  11. Mouthwash

    Mouthwash Escaped Lunatic

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    Check out those goalposts: from declaring that the Israeli state justifies its existence on religious grounds to demanding proof that not all Zionists were atheists.

    The Irgun was an entirely secular organization. Religiously-grounded Zionism did not become a political force until the 70's... and speaking as a religious Zionist, living in a religious town, having been exposed to religious Zionist thought my entire life, almost all of it seems to advocate some version of 'God let us return because of historical circumstances', not 'because the Torah or Rabbi so-and-so said to return'. There are other, more fascist streams of religious Zionism, but they're pretty marginal.

    With that said, I'm probably going to regret treating you like an honest participant in this conversation. Bring on the next round of distortions, cherry-picking, and strawmen!
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2019
  12. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Super Moderator

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  13. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

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    "God let us return" still sounds to my naive ears like a claim to divine sanction. It's just not a claim to divine compulsion. While Tak's claim that Israel derives its legitimacy from the Torah is... contentious, there's surely some space between "God is dead" and "Deus Vult"?
     
  14. tetley

    tetley Head tea leaf

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    I can see how Jewish nationalism can be viewed as non-religious, and I can also see how it can be viewed as religious.
     
  15. Mouthwash

    Mouthwash Escaped Lunatic

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    Well, the idea was mostly in reaction to Israel's success. It's a kind of post facto reasoning to explain why a secular movement could achieve something that the Messiah was supposed to do. The whole thing is still theologically awkward, so there are all sorts of concepts like 'partial exile' (i.e. physical exile being over, but the spiritual exile continuing for as long as the temple is gone).

    Anyway, since Zionism and atheism aren't mutually exclusive, I'd say his claim is pretty well refuted.
     
  16. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos The Eternal

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    Torah torah torah.
    I mean, israel ressurected a language which had been dead for over 2000 years. You can't get more national myth-y than that.
     
  17. Mouthwash

    Mouthwash Escaped Lunatic

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    Hebrew was certainly never dead. What's more, it was the only common language that Diasporic Jews had - you know, the people they were trying to rescue?
     
  18. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Super Moderator

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    The very first paragraph says that it's the only successfully revived dead language...
     
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  19. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos The Eternal

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    :lol: indeed.
     
  20. Mouthwash

    Mouthwash Escaped Lunatic

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    I've been refuted! Semantically. The Byzantine's (oh, the irony) claim about how it reflects upon Zionism is still false.
     

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