[RD] The Israel/Palestine Quarantine Thread

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One of the most harrowing stories I've heard: Settlers descended upon Ismail Tubasi's village to set fire to its agricultural land. When Ismail went to try and stop them, he was shot in the head. As he bled out, the settlers reportedly mutilated his face.
Link to Tweet.

Direct link to article (+972 Magazine).

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I was on mobile (still am), so the above was a bit brief. I've got a bit more time now so I wanted to explain why this is important (mainly at @Absolution, but I'm in no way demanding you reply. Simply for your benefit).

Allegedly the army didn't instigate / escalate here, but they were present and did act in defense of the settlers' reported actions. If true, this either means that the army is complicit in protecting settler actions on Palestinian land, or the army doesn't have control over elements that behave in this way.
 
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BBC said:
Netanyahu out as new Israeli government approved

Benjamin Netanyahu has lost his 12-year hold on power in Israel after its parliament voted in a new coalition government.

Right-wing nationalist Naftali Bennett has been sworn in as prime minister, leading a "government of change".

He will lead an unprecedented coalition of parties which was approved with a razor-thin majority of 60-59.

Mr Bennett will be prime minister until September 2023 as part of a power-sharing deal.

He will then hand power over to Yair Lapid, leader of the centrist Yesh Atid, for a further two years.

Mr Netanyahu - Israel's longest-serving leader who has dominated its political landscape for years - will remain head of the right-wing Likud party and become leader of the opposition.

During the debate in the Knesset (parliament), a defiant Mr Netanyahu promised: "We'll be back."

After the vote, Mr Netanyahu walked over to Mr Bennett and shook his hand.

US President Joe Biden has already sent his congratulations to Mr Bennett, saying he looks forward to working with him.

Why has this happened?
Mr Netanyahu has served a record-breaking five terms, first from 1996 to 1999, then continuously from 2009 to 2021.

He called an election in April 2019 but failed to win enough support to form a new coalition government. Two more elections followed, each of which ended inconclusively.

The third election resulted in a government of national unity where Mr Netanyahu agreed to share power with the then-opposition leader Benny Gantz. But the arrangement collapsed in December, triggering a fourth election.

Although Likud emerged as the largest party in the 120-seat Knesset, Mr Netanyahu was again unable to form a governing coalition and the task was handed to Mr Lapid, whose centrist Yesh Atid party had emerged as the second largest.

Opposition to Mr Netanyahu staying in power had grown, not just among the left and centre but also among right-wing parties that are ordinarily ideologically aligned to Likud, including Yamina.

Although Yamina came joint fifth in the election with only seven seats, its support was critical if any potential coalition government was to have a majority in parliament. After weeks of negotiations, Mr Lapid brought Yamina on board as part of a constellation of parties whose only common goal was to remove Mr Netanyahu from office.

The agreement involving eight factions with the 61 seats required for a majority was signed on 2 June, just half an hour before a deadline was due to expire, effectively sealing Mr Netanyahu's fate.

What will the new government be like?
In appearance, Mr Bennett's government will be unlike any which has preceded it in Israel's 73-year history.

The alliance contains parties which have vast ideological differences, and perhaps most significantly includes the first independent Arab party to be part of a potential ruling coalition, Raam. It is also expected to have a record number of eight female ministers.

The inclusion of Raam and left-wing non-Arab Israeli parties means there could be friction on issues such as Israeli policies towards Palestinians - Yamina and another right-wing party, New Hope, are staunch supporters of Jewish settlement in the Israeli-occupied West Bank, for instance.

There could also be difficulties over social policies - while some parties want to advance gay rights, such as recognising same sex marriages, Raam, an Islamist party, is against this.

In addition, some parties want to relax religious restrictions more extensively than Yamina - a national-religious party - will likely allow.

Mr Bennett has indicated his government would focus on areas where agreement was possible, like economic issues or the coronavirus pandemic, while avoiding more contentious matters.

"Nobody will have to give up their ideology," he recently said, "but all will have to postpone the realisation of some of their dreams... We'll focus on what can be achieved, rather than arguing about what cannot."
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-57462470
 
Didn't expect to see the day so soon. But that one is not out of the game until he's buried. Especially as the one think keeping this new government together is opposition to Netanyahu. He won't have to be back: he can't be gone!
 
Jailed for corruption?
 
looks like israel and gaza are at it again. from my understanding hamas started it this time
which is a mistake because any time that happens Israel will just retaliate 10 times harder like they always do
 
looks like israel and gaza are at it again. from my understanding hamas started it this time
which is a mistake because any time that happens Israel will just retaliate 10 times harder like they always do
Not if the Hamas equation is one balancing between getting an Israeli response, and being simply forgotten.

The Palestinians in some ways are less fearful for the immediate problem of overwhelming Israeli military response, and the long term problem of simply being forgotten and left by the roadside of history, as Israel moves on. Israel wants them to just sit still, do nothing, and then there is no problem. Except that it comes with a kind of existential dread of simply being abandoned and left to rot as the Israelis get comfortable with the situation.

Which is why simple military arithmetic doesn't apply in the situation. There is no way Hamas can actually take down Israel in any meaningful way, and not also get hit by ten times the force over whatever they still try. But that's not what they do it.
 
Also: the israeli retaliation costs them not 10x more, but 100x or even more. It's costly to retaliate like that, the rockets on the other hand are cheap (and nobody cares about the lives lost). So yeah, to not be forgotten, they can also make Israel bleed financially.
 
Also, notably, Hamas didn't even start it. This all kicked off when a march in East Jerusalem was allowed to go ahead.
The Jerusalem Day flag march is an annual event that marks Israel's capture of East Jerusalem - home to the Old City and its holy sites - in the 1967 Middle East War. Palestinians see it as a provocation.

At Tuesday's event, hundreds of mostly young, nationalist Israelis danced, sang and waved Israeli flags in front of the Old City's Damascus Gate, the main entrance to the Muslim Quarter.

They later entered through another gate to reach the Western Wall, one of Judaism's holiest sites.

[image-removed-for-size]

Israel Foreign Minister Yair Lapid criticised a group of marchers that were filmed chanting racist slogans.

"The fact that there are extremists for whom the Israeli flag represents hate and racism is abominable and intolerable," said Mr Lapid. "It is incomprehensible how one can hold an Israeli flag in one's hand and shout 'Death to Arabs' at the same time."

More than 30 Palestinian protesters were injured and 17 people arrested as Israeli police cleared areas of East Jerusalem ahead of the march, firing stun grenades and rubber bullets.
The bolded bit is possibly why it might have struck a nerve, on top of it apparently being a regular provocation that happens yearly.

Source (BBC).
 
Also, notably, Hamas didn't even start it. This all kicked off when a march in East Jerusalem was allowed to go ahead.

The bolded bit is possibly why it might have struck a nerve, on top of it apparently being a regular provocation that happens yearly.

Source (BBC).

Even so, this was a huge mistake. Taking it is better than giving Israel excuse to absolutely decimate you yet again.

Also: the israeli retaliation costs them not 10x more, but 100x or even more. It's costly to retaliate like that, the rockets on the other hand are cheap (and nobody cares about the lives lost). So yeah, to not be forgotten, they can also make Israel bleed financially.

Israel's military funding is backed by uncle sam and has been for a long time. I'm sure the cost of Israel retaliating financially is no problem. As an American, to be clear, I want this changed. But my opinion is worthless in the matter
 
Even so, this was a huge mistake. Taking it is better than giving Israel excuse to absolutely decimate you yet again.
From inside Gaza the Israeli response drives recruitment. The present crop of fighters are already written off, since they know they are dead-men-walking for taking up arms against Israel. They tend to have accepted that basic condition, and new recruits are coming. And there are an increasing proportion of the population of Gaza who have never known anything other than being locked into Gaza, run by the Hamas, subject of Israeli bombing and shelling from time to time. (The median age is 18, almost 2/3 are under 25.)

Even if holed up in Gaza, the Hamas now have the wider Palestinian population to win – and right now they are being seen as the only thing standing up to Israel. The whole rocket thing is based on what the Hezbollah did up in Lebanon in the war of 2006. Hamas has wanted to emulate the Hezbollah ever since.
 
Even so, this was a huge mistake. Taking it is better than giving Israel excuse to absolutely decimate you yet again.

Israel's military funding is backed by uncle sam and has been for a long time. I'm sure the cost of Israel retaliating financially is no problem. As an American, to be clear, I want this changed. But my opinion is worthless in the matter

Still we can do better things with that money.
The Iron Dome is a ridiculous waste of money and sometimes I wish it didn't exist.

It just gives the government a strategical field of restraint in face of the launching of rockets.
If there was no Iron Dome, there obviously would be less rockets fired, because the euqation would have been much lower on the Israeli side.
Hamas would know that mere five rockets on Ascalon cause a destructive response by Israel, which is not the case now.


Regarding the march - well it's a yearly thing. It was limited when it clashed with the weeks of escalation last month, and then the organisers set up a new date, which was accepted by the police.

Now that this date comes, we see why the escalation round was a strategic victory for Hamas - Hamas thinks they can now call the shots in Jerusalem. This was not seen in more than a decade. They threat with an escalation in Gaza as a result of an event in Jersualem.
This is bad news for Israel, and this phenomenon has to be chopped down right away.
As harmful as it may be, this march has to be done somehow, just in order to not let Hamas call the shots in Jerusalem.

In a more long-term view, the new government will not be able to do anything in order to stregthen the Palestinian Authority over Hamas - as these very topics would bring down this fragile coalition.

Among Israeli journalists it is assumed that Joe Biden understands this, and will avoid challenging this new government in order to not get Netanyahu back as prime minister.
 
Is the fact that the march is a yearly thing a defense of it needing to happen, Absolution? That . . . doesn't really follow, to me. Things shouldn't be approved just because they have been before. Things should be approached contextually, and seeing videos of people shouting "death to Arabs" is surely a bit unhelpful in the current climate?

Even so, this was a huge mistake. Taking it is better than giving Israel excuse to absolutely decimate you yet again.
Nah, because that seems to happen regardless anyway.
 
Is the fact that the march is a yearly thing a defense of it needing to happen, Absolution? That . . . doesn't really follow, to me. Things shouldn't be approved just because they have been before. Things should be approached contextually, and seeing videos of people shouting "death to Arabs" is surely a bit unhelpful in the current climate?

No, but the threat of Hamas, who called us to cancel the march - are the only justification we need.
We should not give them a single gift or achievement - it will only stregthen their position in Palestinian Arab society, which is bad for all sides.
Netanyahu helped promoting Hamas that way, which is disastrous.

I don't care a single bit about the actual march, and actually I'm not sure if I've heard about it before this year.
It is mainly a march of religious-zionist movements. Cancel this tradition or not - a good discussion for next year.
 
Still we can do better things with that money.
The Iron Dome is a ridiculous waste of money and sometimes I wish it didn't exist.

It just gives the government a strategical field of restraint in face of the launching of rockets.
If there was no Iron Dome, there obviously would be less rockets fired, because the euqation would have been much lower on the Israeli side.
Hamas would know that mere five rockets on Ascalon cause a destructive response by Israel, which is not the case now.
You're pretty wrong about this. I'll let the number of casualties/infrastructure damage on both sides of the conflict speak for itself.
 
No, but the threat of Hamas, who called us to cancel the march - are the only justification we need.
We should not give them a single gift or achievement - it will only stregthen their position in Palestinian Arab society, which is bad for all sides.
Netanyahu helped promoting Hamas that way, which is disastrous.

I don't care a single bit about the actual march, and actually I'm not sure if I've heard about it before this year.
It is mainly a march of religious-zionist movements. Cancel this tradition or not - a good discussion for next year.
If not Hamas, then who? Fatah? There is going to need to be a party that represents the PA on some level, or if not the PA then Palestine as a nominal territory. No? I'm presuming some kind of two-state solution here (as an outsider, that's my preference), of course.

On top of that, surely there are people that would argue various political parties within the Knesset being strengthened is also bad for all sides (depending on their level of nationalism and preference for stronger military action)? Some are more hardline than others, and this arguably only contributes to conflict (and thus Hamas' position) as well.
 
Statements during the march yesterday:
  • Death to Arabs
  • Burn down your village
  • Jerusalem is ours
  • Shuafat is on fire
If it was the other side saying such things, there would rightly be allegations of racist terrorism worldwide.

Worth noting that this involved those in power: Far-right Knesset members, including Religious Zionism’s Bezalel Smotrich, Itamar Ben Gvir and Orit Struck, participated in the march, as did Likud legislators May Golan and Shlomo Karhi.
 
If it was the other side saying such things, there would rightly be allegations of racist terrorism worldwide.

Pffffffffffffffffff are you out of your mind?
Such calls are so obvious there on "the other side" that we don't even bother caring about it.

If you cared to listen to the chants that were sang in marches in Lod just during the recent riots.
Or pretty much every Arab MP was photoed visiting families of suicide bombers.
So what? We do have a double standard here, or maybe "racism of low expectations" as right-wingers call it.
We let Arabs get away with extreme nationalism and racism (as long as they are not physically violent), while judging such Jewish actions to much higher social standards.
I'm okay with it, but claiming the opposite is a sick alienation.

(I'm talking about society here, just to say - before you bring up some cases of legal misfunctions).
 
Why, yes, I do expect a wealthy Westernised nation to have much higher social standards than terrorists.
 
Why, yes, I do expect a wealthy Westernised nation to have much higher social standards than terrorists.

Are you calling every Arab chanting their misgivings about Israel a terrorist? Because that is what it sounds like.

And then it is one thing to have double standards (which Absolution did not even complain about), but another to pretend such statements are not even made by "the other side"
 
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