The last challenge -- Team game -- Deity trial

[Duckweed]

Last means this would be the last SG I'd host for CIV4 if we are able to make to a winning end.

Our team buddies have got enough on AW and we are luckily to be able to make it to a winning end, now I'd like to go for something a little relaxed -- if we don't get a very early DOW from 2 deity AIs simultaneously.

Basically we will be facing 3 teams of 2 members, each team will start with double deity starting bonus, i.e. 4 settlers and 2 workers. However the difficulty won't be doubled since their teching only get about 33% bonus, but not 100%.

Diplomacy is also harder to handle than normal game since team altitude is an average of team members. Getting a team to friendly would be very hard.

Settings:

Map -- 1 continent or Terra map
Leader -- I prefer a protective leader or Mansa to avoid early defeat
Everything else would be default

Roster

Duckweed
Obsolete
Bestsss
Shyuhe
Pauliskhan
Dirk1302
The Rook

 

[obsolete]

However the difficulty won't be doubled since their teching only get about 33% bonus, but not 100%.

This is half-true, and half wrong. Yes there is supposed to be a penalty on teams. But the problem is that the AI bonuses get STACKED (as it`s called), and this tends to make for a much tuffer game than regular.

 

[obsolete]

Some more thoughts.... I don`t think protective is going to help you much at all here. Each of your opponents now start with FOUR capitals. Each of your opponents will be giants, even if they haven`t gobbled up at one another. I don`t see how winning a war in these spots is possible. Because of that reason, wouldn`t it be better to swap that protective for philo or something else..

 

[bestsss]

I don't believe(huh, spelling) belong in that league but if you need anyone brave enough you may count me in. When in doubt - Al's word from Scent of a Woman, in this particular case, I can check the code.

Hmm, if you want protective Gilgamesh or SittingBull (as protective and defensive as one can get).
I, myself, would prefer some spiritual leader to be able to handle diplo. The game will be quite a mess diplo-wise and it'd greatly depend on the leader and the team composition drawn.

 

[shyuhe]

Diplo is really hard in team games, but I'll try. Is this 1 v 2 v 2 v 2 if I read the rules correctly? If so, Liz may be a safe bet for the economic aspect. I'd also put Gandhi and Asoka up for consideration as well.

 

[obsolete]

Hard diplo isn`t what I would call it. You will often get members on the same team founding different religions. You can never applease them both. And then there is everyone else to worry about.

As for sitting bull, even his mighty UB itself is not going to save you when you get hit in a war. You`d need something MUCH STRONGER when in that spot. If you could somehow... beat the teams to rifles, then you have a shot with Churchill, but with his starting traits it would be very hard to get to that state. That`s the problem with him. Otherwise, he`s the best warmonger there is.. period.

Perhaps you should do a trial-run on Immortal first to get a feel for it. Perhaps you already did, but rest assured deity takes this to a whole new height. The jump would be like nobel to Immortal I think.

 

[Duckweed]

Diplomacy is hard for human player, so are AIs. From my only team game experience, AI teams are more prone to DOW their neighbors, and this result in slow global tech speed.

Protective is the best trait when you're DOWed, but the worst trait on the other hand. It seems like most of you prefer a strong leader. I'm OK with the majority. I'll wait for one more brave soul and then we can vote for final setting.

 

[obsolete]

Technically I haven`t accepted if I would join or not. I guess I am willing to join, but I feel guilty if we go down in flames on my watch. Without a doubt this game will be tuff (unless we go for some chease AP win or something!).

If you really want that protective leader... like I said Churchill is the powerhouse. I have taken on 3 deity AIs at once with Churchhill`s Reds, they are that god damn powerful. I don`t care newbs say about Pratts, they are sh*t on deity compared to Churchill`s Reds. There isn`t even a comparison between them.

I think any of the English leaders should be a very strong contender here. Possibly Huyan Capac as well. I guess a lot depends on how masterful our team is on an SE system. Of course, knowing the outlay of the map before hand, helps as well (wink). If you really want spiritual... Ramesses used to be my favourite contender, but that trait has been so badly nerfed in BtS I refuse to waste a trait slot on something that you can basically get for free (golden ages & Cristo).

Ghandi MAY be ok... especially if we start off with mass forests in our BFC (hint hint! )

 

[Duckweed]

AP win will never be in my dictionary except that it is domination-based. I'd rather confess a defeat if that's the only choice.

 

[PaulisKhan]

An additional difficulty introduced by teams that is often overlooked is the decrease in trading partners.
We're effectively limited to a maximum of 3 trading partners, one of whom will inevitably hate us (can't please everyone)
One who will undoubtedtly have a massive tech lead and one who just maybe might get a chance to do some trading with now and again. One of main strengths of deity (tech brokering) is removed from the game at the same time that the AI's teching ability is greatly enhanced.

That's not a hard and fast rule but it tends to hold true for most of the team games I played when I was playing them a lot.

 

[obsolete]

Yes, in my current deity teamer, we have only traded perhaps one tech in the last 500 years (if anything), and despite 4 AIs out there, this makes only 2 teams, and even if you can get on good terms with one team, if they have a lead on anything (which is what you`d want to trade for), they wont trade it because it is a lead.

 

[obsolete]

BTW, missing wonders in this game also counts as a double whammy against you, since their whole team gets the benefits (except for TaJ). And further more, teams COMBINE starting techs. So their extra tech bonuses are even greater here than in solo.

Perhaps we should switch the map to an Archipelago.

 

[Dirk1302]

I intended to stop SG for some time but this one seems like a tough challenge indeed so i'm happy to join if there are slots left. I would go with more or less standard settings. Archipelago works in favor of human players too much imo. I may play my next solo deity game (if i play one) along these lines as well as in my experience most deity starts are winnable.

 

[Duckweed]

Good to see most of you are interested. Now let's vote for the setting. Everyone can nominate a couple of his own favorite and vote for others as well. Here's mine:

Leader:

1. Mansa -- Best UU to fight for early DOW, also great trait combo
2. Saladin -- protective and spiritual

Map:
1. Terra -- an extra chance for late catch up -- I expect this game to pass over 1900 AD
2. In land sea -- never play this map and I'm attracted to new thing.

Please post a clear format for easy consensus.

 

[bestsss]

Generally I don't believe FIN is very strong here although lack of tech trading doesn't favor bulbs either.

Leader, no strong preference, yet I'd prefer a PHI leader.
* Gandhi, I like the dude except for the lack of real unique building.

From duckweed's leaders I like Saladin.

Map:
* I support in land sea as well, my fav. for OCC, probably not so good for such a challenge, though. Nonetheless I like it. It's similar to pangea except the sea is some oval in the middle. - (edit) if "Everything else would be default". The world is not round but flat. I prefer it round

* Archipelago is nice for some easier mode

 

[shyuhe]

Leader: No strong preference, but I'd like spiritual. So Gandhi, Asoka, Mansa, possibly Saladin even though his starting techs are a bit crummy, and in that order I guess. Izzy would be another option with citadels.

Map: Inland sea is ok - but we'll have to expand very aggressively. Depending on how the AI land, it may allow for more opportunistic warring.

 

[PaulisKhan]

I put a vote in for Saladin.
Mansa, Gandhi and Asoka are all obviously strong leaders for this challenge but I'd lke to see how well we can do with our teal friend.

Inland sea has many advantages if we war smartly and can block off some land, but there is also so much good land sometimes an AI can run away uncontrollably due to poor distribution of starting locations.

I'd also like to put in a vote for shorter snappier turnsets. Something along the lines of 5-6 turns once the game starts to heat up.
That allows us to really push the micro strategies to the limit, which I think we will need.

 

[Duckweed]

So the consensus is:

Leader:
1. Salidin -- 4 votes -- Obs, Dirk ?
2. Gandhi -- 4 votes ( +1 from me) -- Dirk?

Map:
1. In land sea -- 4 votes -- Obs, Dirk?
2. Archipelago -- 2 votes

 

[Duckweed]

I'd also like to put in a vote for shorter snappier turnsets. Something along the lines of 5-6 turns once the game starts to heat up.
That allows us to really push the micro strategies to the limit, which I think we will need.

+1
we need more active participation then, otherwise this game is going to take too long.

 

[Dirk1302]

Inland sea, Ghandi

Shorter turnsets have their advantages. It's not always possible however for me to take a save immediately once i'm up, sometimes i just can't play right away. I think others are also busy once in a while so i wonder how practical the idea will be.