[RD] The Last Jedi – Another Cold Rehash

[BvBPL]

The Force Awakens, 2015’s Star Wars franchise entry, was a rehash of 1977’s Star Wars. Of course, Star Wars’ plot was used twice before in Return of the Jedi and Phantom Menace. Now the trailer for the Last Jedi features Imperial walker tanks on a cold, barren landscape, mirroring the Empire Strikes Back. Like Empire, the Last Jedi is almost certain to end on a dark note with evil having stomped good’s face into the mud a little to build dramatic tension for the future third movie in the third trilogy.

How long do you think Star Wars will repeat itself? Can we expect in ten years to see yet another telling of the same damn story?

I guess the Force Awakens wasn’t a total repeat of the first movie though. There was some different stuff about it. For example, did you ever notice that in the first trilogy Luke and Ben always lose in fights to Darth Vader? In fact, they don’t just lose, they surrender. They give up being fighters in the face of their greatest nemesis. In contrast, the prequel trilogy focuses on the martial prowess of the jedi. As does the Force Awakens.

 

[Gori the Grey]

How long do you think Star Wars will repeat itself?

Well, of course the basic answer is: as long as it makes $$$.

That will probably be until about episode XIV: Return of the Midichlorians.

 

[rah]

Or until Mickey Mouse is reincarnated as a Jedi in episode X

 

[GoodEnoughForMe]

It's difficult to say. Kathleen Kennedy basically has full oversight over the creative process of anything Star Wars film, and her word is mostly law, and the rest of the suits at Disney certainly wants its cash cow protected. The off-trilogy films seem like better bets for pushing boundaries a bit more; Rogue One had no title crawl and was pretty dark and despondent at times. However, judging how different VIII is based entirely on the trailer is probably a bit unfair, as the trailer wasn't exactly made to do anything but sell tickets, and even director Rian Johnson disavowed it for a time (for being too spoiler-y). Speaking of Johnson - he's directing the entire next trilogy, and it's taking place in a timezone not currently covered by any Star Wars fiction, so there's a chance there to really break out of tradition. We'll see. I think we'll know more after we can view VIII in its entirety. It's also important to note that Disney kind of went through this with Marvel films. Early on they tried to micro-manage everything, and while nothing about Disney is hands-off, they've ceded a lot of their oversight to the people involved in actually making the Marvel films over the years and put more faith in them.

 

[luiz]

The thing to understand is that this movie is just another installment of a cash cow. There is no room for authorial vision or artistic experimentation. Every line will be focus group tested, every minor character will be thoroughly vetted by thirty different departments.

If it feels formulaic, it's because it is formulaic. This formula has proven to make enormous amounts of cash, to not provoke outrages and to be repeatable ad nauseum. So they will keep on repeating it until one of these qualities cease being true.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

If this episode follows the plot of Empire Strikes Back as closely as the last one followed A New Hope, I won't be paying to see Episode IX in theaters. It really irked me that they just redid the trench run in Episode VII along with all of the other plot points they stole. It was too heavy on nostalgia. I loved the new characters but the story was actually kind of lame once it settled into A New Hope Part Deux.

I am willing to give Episode VIII a chance and see it in theaters but that may be it for me.

Actually Rogue One is probably my favorite Star Wars movie precisely because it was so different.

 

[civvver]

I mean other than the hey-we-built-a-world-destroying-super-weapon-with-one-glaring-weakness part, I don't see what's so similar about the films, other than the part that rey is from a desert planet and there's a sith lord with an apprentice in charge of the empire/new empire. It's more following typical movie tropes like fulfilling destiny, individual heroes, good vs evil, sons vs fathers. Like there's nothing like Finn in the originals, showing members of the empire to have a human side to them. In originals they were all masked faces. Rey and kylo ren are so much like luke and vader because they are their descendants (well rey isn't for sure that's just my guess) so they want to keep the saga going.

 

[Synobun]

I mean other than the hey-we-built-a-world-destroying-super-weapon-with-one-glaring-weakness part, I don't see what's so similar about the films, other than the part that rey is from a desert planet and there's a sith lord with an apprentice in charge of the empire/new empire. It's more following typical movie tropes like fulfilling destiny, individual heroes, good vs evil, sons vs fathers. Like there's nothing like Finn in the originals, showing members of the empire to have a human side to them. In originals they were all masked faces. Rey and kylo ren are so much like luke and vader because they are their descendants (well rey isn't for sure that's just my guess) so they want to keep the saga going.

Snoke and Kylo aren't Sith so that's another knock against the "just a rehash" argument.

Rey and Kylo are also seen as 'equals' in the canon which will probably be showcased heavily in TLJ.

 

[Traitorfish]

You don't like Star Wars, you don't want to guillotine the president. I'm starting to think that you just don't like having fun.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I mean other than the hey-we-built-a-world-destroying-super-weapon-with-one-glaring-weakness part, I don't see what's so similar about the films, other than the part that rey is from a desert planet and there's a sith lord with an apprentice in charge of the empire/new empire. It's more following typical movie tropes like fulfilling destiny, individual heroes, good vs evil, sons vs fathers. Like there's nothing like Finn in the originals, showing members of the empire to have a human side to them. In originals they were all masked faces. Rey and kylo ren are so much like luke and vader because they are their descendants (well rey isn't for sure that's just my guess) so they want to keep the saga going.

So many plot points are directly lifted from Ep IV that it goes past typical tropes in my opinion. I'm not saying it was bad or anything but it wasn't my favorite and leaned too heavily on nostalgia to be a great film.

Snoke and Kylo aren't Sith so that's another knock against the "just a rehash" argument.

Rey and Kylo are also seen as 'equals' in the canon which will probably be showcased heavily in TLJ.

Do we know they aren't Sith? And does it even matter? The Death Planet isn't the Death Star but functionally it's the same thing.

 

[Bugfatty300]

Despite being superficially different in many ways, hardly anyone would argue that Die Hard 2 wasn't a formulaic soulless cash grab rehash of the original. Yet die Hard 2 is still a great top notch action movie...But people seem apprehensive to say the same thing about The Force Awakens.

I guess you could say that about any sequel, yep, but many of them avoid being easy rehashes and do their own thing, telling very different stories; Aliens, 2010, Judgement Day, Army of Darkness, etc.

Lucas' prequels were wildly different movies. But he only got away with it because he was the studio.

The Last Jedi might not be a rehash of Empire, but you can bet it won't stray an inch from the safe and lucrative modern corporate movie making formula.

 

[Perfection]

TFA had to do the work of launching a new trilogy with new characters while the old characters and actors were still present in the face of all the cynicism that the prequel trilogy brought to the franchise all while recapturing the spirit of Star Wars. This was not an easy feat, having Finn and Rey get thrust into situations where they were utterly out of their element did not just mirror the original film but also mirrored the emotional work of being the new face of the Star Wars brand. And the fact of the matter is the plot worked in getting me to like Finn and Rey and care about them as characters. They pulled off what the prequel trilogy did not.

By doing this TFA sets the stage for actually doing something different. And from the looks of The Last Jedi, they're really planning some twists that will make it less of a beat-for-beat copy of the Empire Strikes Back (though there are sure to be some thematic ties).

In the end though Star Wars plots don't have to be that original, we just don't want them to be so forseeable that it undercuts the dramatic tension.

What I really worry about with TLJ is how they will portray the force as it seems an attempt to paradigm shift away from the typical Jedi/Sith dichotomy is at play. Mucking with the spirituality of Star Wars could be disastrous if it's done crude matter I like how they portrayed the force in The Force Awakens and I really liked it in Rogue One. My biggest concern is they'll attempt to intellectualize it too much and play the dark side off as merely misunderstood or something hackish like that. Intellectualizing stuff is for Star Trek, with Star Wars it's about good guys fighting bad guys for the greater good and the comradarie that comes with it. Putting it into murky moral relativism would be a disservice.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Well said!

This was not an easy feat, having Finn and Rey get thrust into situations where they were utterly out of their element did not just mirror the original film but also mirrored the emotional work of being the new face of the Star Wars brand. And the fact of the matter is the plot worked in getting me to like Finn and Rey and care about them as characters. They pulled off what the prequel trilogy did not.

This is an excellent point, Rey become my favorite Star Wars hero after that movie. Finn was great too. Even the minor characters were memorable and well written. They came alive and Kylo's was a great villain too that came off as more internally complex than Anakin/Vader. I watched him and believed there was a lot going on in his head, I don't really get that from Anakin though his motives are consumingly powerful.

In the end though Star Wars plots don't have to be that original, we just don't want them to be so forseeable that it undercuts the dramatic tension.

This is a great way to sum up my feelings. As soon as I knew what was going to happen and how it would play out (in the broad strokes), I lost a lot of interest. A lack of tension is a great way to describe it. For a lot of people this movie only skirted that edge or didn't cross it all.

For me it did cross that line. But I should emphasize I'm still like the movie and was happy to have seen it. I'm just nitpicking really, though if the next movie continues the trend I will be turned off of the franchise enough to only see it through my Netflix DVD subscription.

 

[Arakhor]

Snoke and Kylo aren't Sith so that's another knock against the "just a rehash" argument.

If he isn't already, Kylo clearly wants to be, given his worship of his grandfather's helmet. You then also have the holographic BBEG making an appearance as well.

 

[civvver]

wait, they aren't sith? where do you get that from?

 

[Synobun]

wait, they aren't sith? where do you get that from?

Sith is a specific doctrine, much like the Jedi.

JJ Abrams, before Episode 7 was released, made it clear that Kylo Ren wasn't a Sith and was merely an underling to Supreme Leader Snoke... who isn't a Sith either. They're 'merely' practitioners of the Dark Side.

https://moviepilot.com/posts/3719178

 

[Manfred Belheim]

A distinction without a difference.

 

[Synobun]

There's plenty of difference in the old canon.

A tangible difference will be established in TLJ.

 

[BvBPL]

TFA had to do the work of launching a new trilogy with new characters while the old characters and actors were still present in the face of all the cynicism that the prequel trilogy brought to the franchise all while recapturing the spirit of Star Wars. This was not an easy feat, having Finn and Rey get thrust into situations where they were utterly out of their element did not just mirror the original film but also mirrored the emotional work of being the new face of the Star Wars brand. And the fact of the matter is the plot worked in getting me to like Finn and Rey and care about them as characters. They pulled off what the prequel trilogy did not.

By doing this TFA sets the stage for actually doing something different. And from the looks of The Last Jedi, they're really planning some twists that will make it less of a beat-for-beat copy of the Empire Strikes Back (though there are sure to be some thematic ties).

By doing the same things, they’ve set things up for change.

If only the Clinton campaign had you a year ago.

 

[Synobun]

By doing the same things, they’ve set things up for change.

If only the Clinton campaign had you a year ago.

The Force Awakens has opened up over thirty years of new potential content and a new trilogy that focuses on entirely new characters and stories. Anyone who claims TFA is a carbon copy of Episode 4 that offers nothing new and is just a rehash is being willfully ignorant.