The Left Fails Yet Again

[Zardnaar]

And I voted for them.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/poli...ed-a-war-on-poverty--is-it-gaining-any-ground

Basically we have a heap of social problems over here. Wages are low for probably over half the country while rent is really high.

Our house is basically worth nothing but we could probably sell it for close to half a million, convert the money to USD and buy a cheaper house in a nice suburb in the USA and gave 100k left over. The land under the house is great.

As the article says a couple of years ago a left wing government made a few promises that were basically undeliverable. Hey at least they tried. Vote right wing they can deliver on tax cuts, just borrow money and run the country down for a decade or so.

I also got accused of being a racist here at CFC for opposing immigration when we can't build housing fast enough. Put simply letting in more rich migrants is putting stress on poor NZers. We had close to 15% population growth rate in a few short years. Per capita those Syrian refugees in Europe in 2015. We had that every year for a while.

So why not build more cheap housing? Well we can't we have the land but resource consent is a pain along with zoning laws. Combine that with a lack of tradesmen and it's actually illegal to build cheap housed due to building codes a cheap new house here is $350 000 USD. In places like Auckland double that.


Our average wage here looks good. 70% don't get it. We live alright as we bought a do er upper in a decent suburb a few years back. Mortage is cheap but we lived like students into late 20s/early 30s to do it.

Anyway I think a lot if idealists here are going to be disappointed but electing a left wing government won't fix things over night. It took the right about 30 years to get here, even if Labour can fix things it will take decades not one or two election cycles.

It's also why I'm not overly sympathetic towards illegal migrants in the USA. Get caught here without a visa you're gonna get sent home. If I went to Australia and over stayed and got caught I imagine I would get deported.

If you have surplus labour wages stagnate, more people less houses property prices only go up. Economics 101 yet Labour parties that used to represent organised Labour got hijacked by social liberals with very few clues how the world works.

The left here campaigned on less immigration, the right on more while the far left (read Greens in Parliament) are your stereotypical hippie types

Anyway the Democratic candidates-Trump are full of crap, prepare to be disappointed assuming Trump loses. If Trump wins please stop nominating idiots.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

How about you blame those that run the system; big business, corporations and their puppet politicians rather than refugees; the people with the least amount of power? If you think it's bad now, just wait until climate change accelerates the inevitable ecological disasters that will trigger mass migrations.

 

[Zkribbler]

ecological disasters that have triggered mass migrations.

Fixed.

Agriculture failures in Central America. Droughts in North Africa.

 

[El_Machinae]

It's an exponential curve. If you think you can detect a signal now, you ain't seen nothing yet.

 

[Socrates99]

How about you blame those that run the system; big business, corporations and their puppet politicians rather than refugees; the people with the least amount of power? If you think it's bad now, just wait until climate change accelerates the inevitable ecological disasters that will trigger mass migrations.

I think hes primarily blaming wealthy migrants buying homes there driving up the prices. Gentrification. Then when poor migrants do come it exacerbates the already bad situation and they compete with poor locals for limited cheap housing.

The coastal US states are having similar problems. Most of the numbers he quoted are similar to prices you hear from CA or NY. Even parts of my state are like that. Just look at prices in the Traverse City area. My wife and I contemplated moving to Frankfurt which is just south of TC and 3bed 2bath houses in good repair in the area were ~$500k.

Personally I think blaming migrants with no money and no power is dumb too. Its gross wealth inequality that's the problem. When someone can throw away 500k on a modest 1 family home as their 5th or 6th home just so they have a place to vacation to it prices out the plebes in the market.

 

[AmazonQueen]

I think hes primarily blaming wealthy migrants buying homes there driving up the prices. Gentrification. Then when poor migrants do come it exacerbates the already bad situation and they compete with poor locals for limited cheap housing.

The coastal US states are having similar problems. Most of the numbers he quoted are similar to prices you hear from CA or NY. Even parts of my state are like that. Just look at prices in the Traverse City area. My wife and I contemplated moving to Frankfurt which is just south of TC and 3bed 2bath houses in good repair in the area were ~$500k.

Personally I think blaming migrants with no money and no power is dumb too. Its gross wealth inequality that's the problem. When someone can throw away 500k on a modest 1 family home as their 5th or 6th home just so they have a place to vacation to it prices out the plebes in the market.

Yes, its the same as blaming immigrants for London house prices when the real problem is rich investors, frequently from overseas, buying up property. Its falling for the rights propaganda that misplaces the blame.Poor people instead of rich people.
Not to mention saying the left are failing for not solving the problem instantaneously whilst admiting the right spent 30 years creating it.

 

[Broken_Erika]

Thanks, Obama.

 

[Arwon]

If I went to Australia and over stayed and got caught I imagine I would get deported.

To overstay in Australia, as a New Zealander you would have to either die, be jailed for longer than a year, get tuberculosis, or be stripped of your NZ citizenship. Visa subclass 444 is given to NZers on arrival, it is automatic and perpetual.

 

[Zardnaar]

To overstay in Australia, as a New Zealander you would have to either die, be jailed for longer than a year, get tuberculosis, or be stripped of your NZ citizenship. Visa subclass 444 is given to NZers on arrival, it is automatic and perpetual.

Thought they made things harder for us.

Not sure what the rules here are for Aussies. Don't mind an open border/visas with Aussie.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Thanks, Obama.

The rejection of the and failure of the left and rise, embrace of right wing nationalist ideas once again is a global thing.

 

[Arwon]

Thought they made things harder for us.

Not sure what the rules here are for Aussies. Don't mind an open border/visas with Aussie.

The trick is the perpetual default visa no longer confers a path to citizenship, which is a bastard of a thing to do. It means Kiwis can stay here forever, but it's harder to become a citizen because they need to switch to a visa class that DOES confer a path to citizenship - basically a family/spouse or skilled work visa.

NZers won't get kicked out, but unless they were here before 2001 they can find it really hard to access some many of social assistance (pretty much everything except the aged pension and medicare) and until recently couldn't get treated like domestic students for higher education funding.

 

[Zardnaar]

The rejection of the and failure of the left and rise, embrace of right wing nationalist ideas once again is a global thing.

It's because the left is very good at infighting and has been hijacked by the far left.

Or they throw up union hacks or party officials with 0 charisma.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Or it could be because big business and corporations find the right wing to be a lot more ameniable to their general goals, so support them rather than the left.

 

[Zardnaar]

The trick is the perpetual default visa no longer confers a path to citizenship, which is a bastard of a thing to do. It means Kiwis can stay here forever, but it's harder to become a citizen because they need to switch to a visa class that DOES confer a path to citizenship - basically a family or skilled work visa.

NZers won't get kicked out, but unless they were here before 2001 they can find it really hard to access some forms of social assistance and until recently couldn't get treated like domestic students for higher education funding.

Still generous really. Had a few relations go to Aussie in the 80s. Job interview joke was something like

"You're from New Zealand"?
"Yes"
"You're hired".

 

[Zardnaar]

Or it could be because big business and corporations find the right wing to be a lot more ameniable to their general goals, so support them rather than the left.

They don't vote though.

The right is better at mobilizing their base. And they have more financial incentive to vote.

The left uses identity politics to much. Side effect is their policies often do nothing for the working poor.

You only need to win enough votes from those that bother turning up. Here we have a left wing government and the prime Minister she won around 25% of the potential votes.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

In this case "Identity politics" is code for "people other than me".

 

[Zardnaar]

In this case "Identity politics" is code for "people other than me".

Pretty much. People hear you don't care about me/us.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

I'm going to make an educated guess and assume you are white (i fully confess i could be wrong and apologies if so), most likely straight and male.

In what world are you not already being catered to? This isn't a zero-sum game, others being lifted up does not drag you down and to view it as such is toxic and poisonous and makes me genuinely worry whether you'd turn against me and other minorities if you think it's "going to far".

 

[Zardnaar]

I'm going to make an educated guess and assume you are white (i fully confess i could be wrong and apologies if so), most likely straight and male.

In what world are you not already being catered to? This isn't a zero-sum game, others being lifted up does not drag you down and to view it as such is toxic and poisonous and makes me genuinely worry whether you'd turn against me and other minorities if you think it's "going to far".

Your guesses are right, I didn't notice my privilege though as I grew up in welfare and was busy at school trying to avoid having my head smacked into a concrete wall. First job age 13, buying my own shoes and clothes aged 15.

I also live in one of the most liberal muti ethnic countries in the world. I already vote left here but just pointing out why people don't

Elections are basically who can bribe the middle class the best here. It's basically tax cuts vs social spending. A lot if the time a $10 or $20 a week tax cut is better than nothing for those who aren't in the bottom 10% or top 30%.
For example Labour here introduced working for families, you get money from the government for having kids.

If you don't have kids though or otherwise don't qualify you are better of financially voting right. And since the right didn't repeal working for families you can get a tax cut and have kids and get money.

People on welfare got bupkiss.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Fair enough man, being poor can offset some of the priviledges, but what would you say if i decided to start classifying being poor/working class and any policies directed towards them as "identity politics"? Would you not be irked? Would you not stand back and say "hey this is more of a human rights issue than identity politics" because that is what every minority thinks of their respective position, so why should it be any different?