1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

The MayaEthiopia UB situation.

Discussion in 'Leader Balance' started by Funak, Sep 28, 2015.

  1. Funak

    Funak Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Messages:
    9,127
    As you've probably heard before I really am not too fond of the Ethiopian and Mayan UB. I think they are a boring waste of unique-slots. They are available too early to put interesting mechanics on, and because of that they have flat yields, which are really strong early on and completely useless 50 turns in.
    My original intention have always been completely scrapping them because I find them hideously boring, but since that plan have been shut down more times than I can count(and that's a lot, I can count pretty high), Steele or a monument, it's still going to be the first building you build in every city. Yes they are both going to get pantheons quicker than others, but that feels like a rather boring UB to me.

    Anyways the idea was placing some kind of weird scaling ability on the buildings, and possibly reducing the current stats, it wouldn't really help with the fact that they are available from the start, but at least it shifts some of the power.
    I'm not really an endless bag of imagination so I'd like to request help in this matter, please suggest fitting(or not fitting, honestly, game-play over realism) abilities for the Steele and/or the Pyramid.


    Idea's so far:
    • % Science on city-growth (miniature university)
    • X% of Y yield in city during golden age
    • Faster border expansion
    • Increased religious pressure
    • Increased religious pressure from trade-routes
    • Flat bonus from city growth (scaling with era)
    • Extra city defense

    Again, feel free to suggest your own ideas or choose an existing one and explain what you like about it. If you think the existing UBs are fine, you're welcome to say that as well.
     
  2. Funak

    Funak Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Messages:
    9,127
    Updated a bit.
     
  3. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
    Messages:
    18,003
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Little Rock
    Don't get too attached to the Mayan UB. It's going to be a UI soon. With Ekmek's help, I'm going to use the Chichen Itza model (downsized a bit) to make a 'pyramid' UI for the Maya. They'll be jungle and forest only (to give us another jungle/forest civ), nonadjacent only, and give faith/science as base yields. So it'll be comparable to the current building, but it'll scale a bit better as your empire grows. Plus, it'll look really cool, pyramids in the jungles and whatnot!

    Ethiopia's Stele, on the other hand, could be moved or replaced, but not easily. We could give Ethiopia a unique Grand Temple (the Churches of Lalibela), if that suits you.

    G
     
  4. phantomaxl1207

    phantomaxl1207 King

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2010
    Messages:
    806
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Indiana
    For the Stele I like these two:
     
  5. Funak

    Funak Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Messages:
    9,127
    Now that's fine? I finally made a compromise.... :D

    Meh, unique wonders are just as bad really. A decent unique effect on it and it could work, especially if the Pyramid goes away. I mean the fact that I can make a thread about both of them at the same time is kinda telling how similar they are.
     
  6. Atlas627

    Atlas627 Deity

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Messages:
    2,779
    If we want to think of effects first and flavor later, how about we brainstorm what niche Ethiopia is meant to fill? In vanilla they were all about having few cities close to the capital which was cool imo.
     
  7. phantomaxl1207

    phantomaxl1207 King

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2010
    Messages:
    806
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Indiana
    Stele could give Cities more [Yield] (for Vanilla's sake let's say Defense] that drops off as Cities get further away
     
  8. Funak

    Funak Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Messages:
    9,127

    That was the intended purpose for vanilla Ethiopia. the practical purpose was ICS, getting a free religion from your Steele, getting faster enhance, using that to pick pagodas and mosques and then using your stability to dominate the game.



    The current Ethiopia is a culture/science/religion mix, which is pretty interesting as well, it gives us a lot of options for a UB ability.
     
  9. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
    Messages:
    18,003
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Little Rock
    Before we get ahead of ourselves, I don't want to create an entirely new function for a Stele change. It needs to use existing DLL functions. There are plenty of building modifiers at this point.

    G
     
  10. Funak

    Funak Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Messages:
    9,127
    Which of the ones I listed doesn't exist? Just tell me and I'll remove them.
     
  11. Finarvi

    Finarvi Prince

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2015
    Messages:
    529
    I like this one! It could have some normal yields plus, lets say, :c5culture::c5science: bonus depending on proximity to capital (so capital would take full effect).
     
  12. Funak

    Funak Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Messages:
    9,127
    Please don't go liking a new idea after G have already told us to stick to existing ideas :D
     
  13. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
    Messages:
    18,003
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Little Rock
    Policy, tech, golden age, and border expansion are all not building functions.

    We do have a few new ones, as well as some old functions to look at. First you need to decide if the stele remains where it is. If it does, I'm going to suggest we don't change it. The stele is potent as a monument replacement as is. If we are moving it, we need to decide where. It needs to be pre-renaissance and most likely religious, given Ethiopia's UA. That doesn't leave a lot of room. The UB grand temple (lalibela) is a possibility, as is a UB national monument or national epic. Could be interesting to give Lalibela a reformation unlock, allowing Ethiopia to get a full fledged religion without having to WW hunt or expand (makes historical sense, given that Abyssinian Christianity was fairly insular yet robust).

    G
     
  14. Funak

    Funak Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Messages:
    9,127
    I will remove those in that case.

    Removing the Steele would mean removing the actual religion-focus from the civ, which would hurt both their UA and your suggested UB-replacement.
    I don't think you're right about it being potent, while it is certainly better than the pyramid was it is still really boring. Also with how CPP added more sources of faith and more sources of culture to the game it gets even worse even quicker than it did in vanilla.

    Since it is already strong early game I would suggest an effect that really isn't strong at all early game, but comes into effect a bit later on, think maybe a 25% 'university effect'.
     
  15. Der_Zorn_gottes

    Der_Zorn_gottes King

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2003
    Messages:
    757
    Maybe add something that removes religious unhappiness later?
    It`s not much and won`t help early at all, but it will make the stele moderately usefull even later in the game.
    Funak will still find it boring, but I think it`s fine to have things that are just plain, unexcitingly useful.
     
  16. Strigvir

    Strigvir Emperor

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2013
    Messages:
    1,299
    Religious strife removal is taken by India.
     
  17. Funak

    Funak Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Messages:
    9,127
    Clashing with rationalism (which probably is a go-to choice for Ethiopia), and also I find religious unhappiness not that impactful, especially if you found your own religion or go piety, both which seems like reasonable choices for Ethiopia.

    I can understand why it is there, but I really don't like it there either truth be told, but the whole of India is in a pretty weird spot currently
     
  18. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
    Messages:
    18,003
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Little Rock
    Sorry, Building Golden Age Yield Mod does exist, forgot it was added. So we could throw a 25% more Faith or Culture during GAs on it (something with limited initial effect, but some scaling bonus for later in the game).

    G
     
  19. Funak

    Funak Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Messages:
    9,127
    I knew there was a reason why I didn't actually bother removing it from the list :D
    Does those same effects exist for WLTKD, I don't think you mentioned that at all in your post.
     
  20. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
    Messages:
    18,003
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Little Rock
    No, only GAs.

    G
     

Share This Page