The MayaEthiopia UB situation.

[Atlas627]

Well does the trifecta scaling idea sound alright regardless? If people like it I can try and think of a way to do it with effects buildings already have. Can we use effects that exist on wonders?

Here's another idea to throw out there.

Great Works in this city produce +4 faith. Steele produces +2 culture and +2 tourism once Archaeology is researched. If this city follows your majority religion, +2 science.

 

[Funak]

Well does the trifecta scaling idea sound alright regardless? If people like it I can try and think of a way to do it with effects buildings already have. Can we use effects that exist on wonders?

Here's another idea to throw out there.

Great Works in this city produce +4 faith. Steele produces +2 culture and +2 tourism once Archaeology is researched. If this city follows your majority religion, +2 science.

The faith comes too late to be helpful.

I still think staying the way it is but with an effect, like a bonus during golden age to keep it unique is the best solution.

 

[Gazebo]

The faith comes too late to be helpful.

I still think staying the way it is but with an effect, like a bonus during golden age to keep it unique is the best solution.

That's what it is going to be - +25% Faith during GAs.

G

 

[Funak]

That's what it is going to be - +25% Faith during GAs.

Not sure if I think Faith is the best yield however. Culture or science feels like a better idea since the flat part of the steele is already faith-based. Also, comparably faith income is a lot lower than other yields, meaning you're less likely to actually see an effect of it.

 

[Gazebo]

Not sure if I think Faith is the best yield however. Culture or science feels like a better idea since the flat part of the steele is already faith-based. Also, comparably faith income is a lot lower than other yields, meaning you're less likely to actually see an effect of it.

In every City, though, and in addition to other GA effects, +25% Faith is pretty good. Even an extra 2 faith per city (rough estimate of minimum mid-game), over 10 turns with 4 cities, gives you 80 more faith to play with. And that's just with 2 Faith. Faith is a slower yield, but there are very few multipliers for it in the game.

G

 

[Atlas627]

The faith comes too late to be helpful.

I still think staying the way it is but with an effect, like a bonus during golden age to keep it unique is the best solution.

I disagree. Faith does not always have to go into founding a religion. A lot of lategame faith can be used to buy Great People or more buildings.

Keeping it the way it is does not help at all. It is still a "build first in every city" building. Boring, no matter what cool effect you give it.

 

[Funak]

In every City, though, and in addition to other GA effects, +25% Faith is pretty good. Even an extra 2 faith per city (rough estimate of minimum mid-game), over 10 turns with 4 cities, gives you 80 more faith to play with. And that's just with 2 Faith. Faith is a slower yield, but there are very few multipliers for it in the game.

Your explanation made it sound even worse than it sounded in my head, thanks a lot

You do what you want, but I still don't think faith sounds like a good idea.

 

[Edaka]

Keeping it the way it is does not help at all. It is still a "build first in every city" building. Boring, no matter what cool effect you give it.

The bonus is certainly unique, but you're right about the fact that you'll always build steele first. It really sounds more like a UA rather than a UB.

 

[Gazebo]

The bonus is certainly unique, but you're right about the fact that you'll always build steele first. It really sounds more like a UA rather than a UB.

And we go around and around and around...

There's no where else to put the Stele, building-wise, without overlap or mismatch. So it's this, or a NW.

G

 

[Funak]

And we go around and around and around...

There's no where else to put the Stele, building-wise, without overlap or mismatch. So it's this, or a NW.

G

I'll point out again, that if you Steele is removed, then the Ethiopian religion advantage will be gone with it (Grand temple is way too late to help with that), and if the religion advantage is gone the UA needs to change as it is pretty dependent on getting a religion. So while I personally still don't like the Steele at all, the options seems rather limited.
Keep the Steele or remake the civ from scratch (excluding the UU I suppose). I was mostly advocating for keeping the Steele as I'm pretty sure Gazebo would yell "NO MORE OVERHAULS!" if the other was suggested

 

[Edaka]

And we go around and around and around...

There's no where else to put the Stele, building-wise, without overlap or mismatch. So it's this, or a NW.

G

Oh man, so it's come down to choosing the lesser evil. I'd prefer a NW just for the sake of uniqueness.

 

[Atlas627]

Scaling that is dependent upon other factors would be a good way to make it not an auto-first build in every city. As I suggested, with the 3 yields that Ethiopia's UA uses (science, culture, and faith) depending upon each other, the building may not provide the right yields to make it automatically better than everything else.

The building will only provide more culture than normal if you have science/faith produced in the city already, only provide more science than normal if you have faith/culture in the city already, and only provide more faith than normal if you have more culture/science in the city already.

Its just an idea and there are many more that we can come up with, but making the Steele straight-up better doesn't help, making the UB a national wonder is exceedingly boring, and moving it to later changes its function anyway.

 

[Funak]

The building will only provide more culture than normal if you have science/faith produced in the city already, only provide more science than normal if you have faith/culture in the city already, and only provide more faith than normal if you have more culture/science in the city already.

The real problem is that you're going to build it first no matter what. I mean you're pretty much forced build a monument first in every city anyways because of how border expansion works, so naturally you're going to build a unique monument first as well. Moving its power to later only really does that, move its power. And all moving its power would do is make it less interesting at the point when you build it.

 

[CunningGabe]

I actually like the Stele. I understand that it is sort of boring, and that it is an absolute first-build in every city, but a big early bonus is exciting (to me), and that's enough to carry my enthusiasm. Of course, I won't complain if the Stele gets buffed too.

(Also, I love Ethiopia's "new" UA.)

 

[Strec]

I actually like the Stele. I understand that it is sort of boring, and that it is an absolute first-build in every city, but a big early bonus is exciting (to me), and that's enough to carry my enthusiasm. Of course, I won't complain if the Stele gets buffed too.

I agree with that, Religion is the better thing to invest to have results on middle and long term.

 

[Strigvir]

Moreover, the current UA works very well for AI.
In most of my games Ethiopians turn into a science runaway thanks to UA alone.

 

[Atlas627]

The real problem is that you're going to build it first no matter what. I mean you're pretty much forced build a monument first in every city anyways because of how border expansion works, so naturally you're going to build a unique monument first as well. Moving its power to later only really does that, move its power. And all moving its power would do is make it less interesting at the point when you build it.

There are many situations where building a monument first is not the best course of action, and sometimes I do not build a monument for a long time.