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The Modern Age livestream - new leader, Harriet Tubman

Nikolai II

Basileus Romaion
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Moderator Action: The Civilization VII design team has taken a different approach in assigning leaders in their game as they no longer need to be governing leaders but may also be influential or key societal leaders. You may disagree with this approach and may express your dissatisfaction with their decision. However, you must do so in a civil way that does not invoke current events or political viewpoints as these have never been allowed in the gaming forums. In addition, at CivFanatics we are not interested in the drama occurring on other platforms/forums. Please leave that stuff there. Help us to keep this a place members may discuss difficult issues without the trolling and nastiness. Thank you, CFC Staff.
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Moderator Action: Attention, this thread was cut from the live stream thread, and may therefore contain some random cut comments from that thread.



Born Araminta "Minty" Ross to enslaved parents on a Maryland plantation, Harriet Tubman escaped slavery, then helped others do the same via the Underground Railroad, a network of safehouses that led to the free North. She led the Union Army in a raid on Combahee Ferry, rescuing over 700 people, and later became involved in the suffrage movement and other causes. Few have embodied the fight for freedom and equal rights as well as Harriet Tubman.

Unique Ability​

Combahee Raid: Increased Influence towards initiating Espionage Actions. Gain a set amount of War Support on all wars declared against you. Units ignore Movement penalties from Vegetated tiles.

Attributes​

  • Diplomatic
  • Militaristic

Agendas​

Veracity: Increase Relationship by a Medium Amount once for each formal war the player declared. Decrease Relationship by a Medium Amount once for each surprise war the player declared.

Starting Biases​

  • Vegetated
 
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Why am I not surprised for Tubman? haha

Wasn't it leaked before this that she was going to be featured?
 
She's a cool choice, though the abilities don't exactly light my world on fire!
 
Tubman's foremother was from West Africa. So she's connected to there. Also unlocks America ofc.
 
I like Harriet Tubman. I'd like her better in place of Ben Franklin. Speaking of Franklin, his agenda just caused him to join the ranks with Amina on my permaban list. Also, Qing and Siam are now hard-confirmed, and it's interesting to see Ashoka favor Siam; I wonder if that's because Xerxes took Mughals or if Ashoka defaults to favoring Siam.
 
While not a fan of having two American leaders in the base game while many civs will likely have none, at least Harriet Tubman was a great choice, even if better if it was just her on release.

Siam and Qing officially confirmed for the first time now, I think. But they didn't even have to spell it out as new info in the stream like they did with Mexico on the last one because they were aware we knew about the Qing leak and about Siam because of a screenshot name.

So as some speculated the end of the game tech wise seems to be around 1950~1980. Not a big fan of it as while I would want an eventual 4th age, I would prefer it to be a lot more futuristic like call to power later game than just more present tech, but I guess a 4th age would at least reach some futuristic content near it's end whenever they add it.

I was wondering how victory would work considering we heard there were legacies paths on modern too, and the simple solution that escaped my mind was having you unlocking the victories after finishing the related legacy path. I wonder how it would work with a 4th age when they make it. I guess they can just make so in a game with a 4th age you need more points for each legacy path or the victories are added as a step to reach the end of a legacy path and so unlocking powerful golden age bonuses for the next age.
 
harriet tubman seems like a fairly good leader choice.

that being said, two american leaders at launch when so many civs have no corresponding leaders is unfortunate. i’d much rather have seen just tubman and had ben franklin scrapped in favor of a more geographically varied group of leaders, or had franklin saved for dlc.
 
harriet tubman seems like a fairly good leader choice.

that being said, two american leaders at launch when so many civs have no corresponding leaders is unfortunate. i’d much rather have seen just tubman and had ben franklin scrapped in favor of a more geographically varied group of leaders, or had franklin saved for dlc.

I spent a lot of time yesterday whining about the lack of women leaders and questioning why we haven't seen more women in the game now that we've ditched the "head of state requirement" -- it's almost as if the lovely Firaxis team has told me to STFU, and I'm so happy about it. 🥰
 
I spent a lot of time yesterday whining about the lack of women leaders and questioning why we haven't seen more women in the game now that we've ditched the "head of state requirement" -- it's almost as if the lovely Firaxis team has told me to STFU, and I'm so happy about it. 🥰
alas, my hopes and dreams for lili’uokalani have been dashed. at least the new leader choice is good in her own right.
 
i’ve also read a couple comments from black fans, esp on reddit, talking about how tubman may not be such a good choice for the genre considering her status as someone who resisted the 4xs in her lifetime, as well as her default tie to a civ that would not respect her. think that’s a valid critique that deserves to be highlighted for firaxis as they think about how to implement her.
 
i’ve also read a couple comments from black fans, esp on reddit, talking about how tubman may not be such a good choice for the genre considering her status as someone who resisted the 4xs in her lifetime, as well as her default tie to a civ that would not respect her. think that’s a valid critique that deserves to be highlighted for firaxis as they think about how to implement her.
Somehow, the Cree Complaint returned.
 
I don't think a 4th Age, "information" or "future" or otherwise, will work with adding new civilizations. You'd have bloated rosters for the original 3 ages with a tiny set of 4th age civs, and any future DLC or expansion would need to thread the needle of which civs to add to keep a balance. That would necessarily skew away from historical civs, and I feel that's just not in the spirit of the game. I'd predict a 4th Age to rely on building a custom civ on legacies from earlier in the game, or to just continue using Modern Age civs with a big gameplay shakeup.
You have a good point, there could be a generic, or they could just give each modern civ bonuses for the 4th era too (considering most civs from modern would make sense to exist on 4th age too?) or let you pick something else rather than civ.
harriet tubman seems like a fairly good leader choice.

that being said, two american leaders at launch when so many civs have no corresponding leaders is unfortunate. i’d much rather have seen just tubman and had ben franklin scrapped in favor of a more geographically varied group of leaders, or had franklin saved for dlc.
I wonder if it is because they really wanted to have her in the game, but would expect people to complain if she was the only American leader on the base game, so had to add two American ones instead.
 
Somehow, the Cree Complaint returned.
i mean, i’m not black so i don’t feel like it’s my place to comment, but i can understand why the sentiment exists. tubman is prob the most co-opted black historical figure next to MLK. they’re putting her on the $20 bill despite spending her life to resist slavery in the us. so i can appreciate the sentiment that putting her in the game and making the us a default path civ for her would potentially be a bit sour.

i appreciate that she’s a different approach for american rep in the game but i can also see why some people wouldn’t like her being there considering what the US represents to them. I have my own complicated relationships with it, so I can sympathize.
 
I wonder if it is because they really wanted to have her in the game, but would expect people to complain if she was the only American leader on the base game, so had to add two American ones instead.
wouldn’t surprise me at all. lot of fans of the game, even in these forums, seem to complain about “woke” a lot, and i’d expect this would fall into that category for them.
 
In the stream, Harriet Tubman immediately launches espionage against Xerxes to Steal Technology. However, isn't this the very start of the age, and therefore everyone's starting at 0 Modern-age Techs? Will it steal a tech from a previous age? I thought that the techs from previous ages are totally irrelevant once the age moves forward. Or, you're betting that by the time the espionage action completes, the two players will have completed research in different branches?
 
It's important to remember that no group of people is homogeneous and every individual will have their own opinions on what and who they feel represents them well, and these opinions will at times conflict even within a group.
 
In the stream, Harriet Tubman immediately launches espionage against Xerxes to Steal Technology. However, isn't this the very start of the age, and therefore everyone's starting at 0 Modern-age Techs? Will it steal a tech from a previous age? I thought that the techs from previous ages are totally irrelevant once the age moves forward. Or, you're betting that by the time the espionage action completes, the two players will have completed research in different branches?
I'm guessing the latter.
 
In the stream, Harriet Tubman immediately launches espionage against Xerxes to Steal Technology. However, isn't this the very start of the age, and therefore everyone's starting at 0 Modern-age Techs? Will it steal a tech from a previous age? I thought that the techs from previous ages are totally irrelevant once the age moves forward. Or, you're betting that by the time the espionage action completes, the two players will have completed research in different branches?
It takes a few turns. There's presumably more than one starter tech.
 
It's important to remember that no group of people is homogeneous and every individual will have their own opinions on what and who they feel represents them well, and these opinions will at times conflict even within a group.
for sure. i’m not saying it’s the predominant opinion, i’m just pointing out that the opinion’s been raised and that it’s valid.
 
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