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The Modern Age livestream - new leader, Harriet Tubman

Giving Tubman an espionage bonus looks pretty inspired to me.
It definitely is. She comes across as someone who is supposed to undermine and dismantle stronger empires from the shadows, which is a great design angle for a freedom fighter. She's cunning in equal measures to Machiavelli, yet with a completely different take on life.

The only -minor- complaint i have is that her agenda doesn't fully support that playstyle. Personality-wise she's just Forest Tomyris.
 
I was a bit confused when reading the comments. I thought the reason why people hated Netflix's Cleopatra or Anne Boleyn TV-series was that they black washed history instead of telling stories of actual black people. Seeing an actual black person, whose inclusion was justified by Machiavelli and Confucius, get the same treatment as black washed Cleopatra is worrisome to say the least. I sincerely hope this is just over-correction rather than racism being normalized.
Unfortunately your worry that it’s a case of racism being normalised is true as Amina’s inclusion similarly was also welcomed to racism by some (whilst not to the same level as Tubman) there still were a lot of racist comments being made regarding her inclusion some of which claiming that her inclusion was “ticking off a DEI checklist” with others acting as if she wasn’t significant or immediately thinking ‘where are the western leaders?’.

The best thing really is to tune out of the opinions of those racists, for that they are put simply racists who seem to believe the world is limited only to the US and Europe and therefore there is no reasoning with them.
 
Unfortunately your worry that it’s a case of racism being normalised is true as Amina’s inclusion similarly was also welcomed to racism by some (whilst not to the same level as Tubman) there still were a lot of racist comments being made regarding her inclusion some of which claiming that her inclusion was “ticking off a DEI checklist” with others acting as if she wasn’t significant or immediately thinking ‘where are the western leaders?’.

The best thing really is to tune out of the opinions of those racists, for that they are put simply racists who seem to believe the world is limited only to the US and Europe and therefore there is no reasoning with them.
Yeah, I did notice there being a 90-10 like-dislike ratio in Amina's first look while others had 95-5 like-dislike ratio. There probably was a smaller reaction as Amina was a leader of a nation, so less racists had, what they see, a "valid" reason, as hypocritical as that reason is.
 
Also, like, a pretty decent percentage of the racists in question are American racists, and they can more easily shrug off a "woke" leader somewhere else in the world than in The Good Ol' U S of A.
 
Many commenters with negative things to say also don‘t seem to know about decoupled leaders and non-heads of state being leaders is a thing. I can understand that people that lack this knowledge find the choice strange and somehow motivated by an agenda. I mean, think about Harriet appearing in civ V or VI. That would smell strange. Of course, this doesn‘t excuse the many racist or denigrating comments.
 
Many commenters with negative things to say also don‘t seem to know about decoupled leaders and non-heads of state being leaders is a thing. I can understand that people that lack this knowledge find the choice strange and somehow motivated by an agenda. I mean, think about Harriet appearing in civ V or VI. That would smell strange. Of course, this doesn‘t excuse the many racist or denigrating comments.
In my experience, contemporary day Internet is filled with people looking to fight over anything, I just assume half of those people are bots.
 
This community supporting this pick and saying anyone who disagrees is racist is the epitamy of the lack of self awareness. She is the furthest thing from a true political leader, and this isn't new to Civ. However this pick is going for diversity points, and many won't be purchasing the game because they are tired of DEI picks like this. Time for Civ to go back to the basics and start off. It has fallen so far off the beaten path.
 
This community supporting this pick and saying anyone who disagrees is racist is the epitamy of the lack of self awareness. She is the furthest thing from a true political leader, and this isn't new to Civ. However this pick is going for diversity points, and many won't be purchasing the game because they are tired of DEI picks like this. Time for Civ to go back to the basics and start off. It has fallen so far off the beaten path.
America got two leaders when many civs don't have one, both well known figures representing two important parts of American history. I'm happy with Battuta and Machiavelli, and I'm certainly more than happy with my home country getting this level of representation.
 
This community supporting this pick and saying anyone who disagrees is racist is the epitamy of the lack of self awareness. She is the furthest thing from a true political leader, and this isn't new to Civ. However this pick is going for diversity points, and many won't be purchasing the game because they are tired of DEI picks like this. Time for Civ to go back to the basics and start off. It has fallen so far off the beaten path.

How does this hurt you or in any way ruin your enjoyment of the game?
 
This community supporting this pick and saying anyone who disagrees is racist is the epitamy of the lack of self awareness. She is the furthest thing from a true political leader, and this isn't new to Civ. However this pick is going for diversity points, and many won't be purchasing the game because they are tired of DEI picks like this. Time for Civ to go back to the basics and start off. It has fallen so far off the beaten path.
I honestly don't even take anyone who uses DEI unironically like you seriously. That word has become the new dog-whistle for the N-word among crazy Americans to a dangerous degree.
 
And whatever you do, DON'T go on Twitter!

I know it’s still considered financially viable to post on twitter…but twitter 2024 is not the same as twitter of before. It’s a horrid place that gets worse and worse and many have deactivated their accounts.

Hopefully they give blue sky as much love as they still do twitter, eventually most corporations will have to shift to something else like blue sky anyways. Maybe @FXS_Sar or someone can help push for this. Honestly the discourse of Civ Twitter does more harm than good for Civ imo
 
I know it’s still considered financially viable to post on twitter…but twitter 2024 is not the same as twitter of before. It’s a horrid place
How is that different from Twitter before? Twitter has always been the dregs of social media. (Though, on the bright side, that's not even true anymore! Steam forums have demonstrated that humanity can sink even lower than Twitter!)
 
Also, like, a pretty decent percentage of the racists in question are American racists, and they can more easily shrug off a "woke" leader somewhere else in the world than in The Good Ol' U S of A.
I confess, I find the terminology confusing.

If to these nekulturny 'woke' is bad, does that mean 'terminally asleep' is good? Apparently, yes.

Likewise, if 'Anti-Fa(cist)' is bad, does that mean they are Pro Facist? Again, apparently yes.
 
This community supporting this pick and saying anyone who disagrees is racist is the epitamy of the lack of self awareness. She is the furthest thing from a true political leader, and this isn't new to Civ. However this pick is going for diversity points, and many won't be purchasing the game because they are tired of DEI picks like this. Time for Civ to go back to the basics and start off. It has fallen so far off the beaten path.

I mean, complaining about “DEI picks like this” is inherently racist/sexist. There is no way around that. You can’t wiggle out of that or try to dismiss it. Because you are basically saying “if they didn’t put a female of color here, these people wouldn’t be upset”. It’s because of racism/sexism that the reaction is the way it is.

Now, can there be criticism that America is getting 2 leaders? Sure…but let’s be honest, when America got two white guy leaders or Rome got two white guy leaders last time…it did not get this vitriol lol
 
How is that different from Twitter before? Twitter has always been the dregs of social media. (Though, on the bright side, that's not even true anymore! Steam forums have demonstrated that humanity can sink even lower than Twitter!)

Oh come on, it’s verifiably worse lol. It’s more of an echo chamber of “dregs”, blue checkmarks are bought now, X now pushes certain tweets and responses more than others, most people who before Musk/X would even out the discussions, they have left or given up to try.

Just look at a tweet that appears on X and also blue sky and the difference in discussions couldn't be more night and day
 
Oh come on, it’s verifiably worse lol. It’s more of an echo chamber of “dregs”, blue checkmarks are bought now, X now pushes certain tweets and responses more than others, most people who before Musk/X would even out the discussions, they have left or given up to try.

Just look at a tweet that appears on X and also blue sky and the difference in discussions couldn't be more night and day
Wouldn't know. I've treated Twitter as brain cancer for well over a decade. :p
 
i’ve also read a couple comments from black fans, esp on reddit, talking about how tubman may not be such a good choice for the genre considering her status as someone who resisted the 4xs in her lifetime, as well as her default tie to a civ that would not respect her. think that’s a valid critique that deserves to be highlighted for firaxis as they think about how to implement her.
She was American, and part of the shared history belonging to all Americans, not just those with a higher melanin count.
 
Unfortunately your worry that it’s a case of racism being normalised is true as Amina’s inclusion similarly was also welcomed to racism by some (whilst not to the same level as Tubman) there still were a lot of racist comments being made regarding her inclusion some of which claiming that her inclusion was “ticking off a DEI checklist” with others acting as if she wasn’t significant or immediately thinking ‘where are the western leaders?’.

The best thing really is to tune out of the opinions of those racists, for that they are put simply racists who seem to believe the world is limited only to the US and Europe and therefore there is no reasoning with them.

Yes and no. "Ticking off the DEI checklist" and "she took a spot that should have gone to someone more qualified" play to a broader audience than the just anti-women, anti-color, anti-trans, anti-whatever crowd. If counter arguments aren't made for why she is qualified, and about how leaders in Civ are no longer just leaders of state (not that they ever were - Gandhi), and about the sizable contingent of white male leaders who are also represented, etc., then casual viewers can easily be led to believe Tubman is an example of the evils of woke-ism.

Its probably better to assume that at least some of the objectors - and many of the observers - have valid reasons for their concerns and present, to the extent you believe them, valid reasons for why maybe they shouldn't be concerned. You won't convince everybody - you'll never convince the bots, who are the most vocal operants in Twit-land these days - but we have to have confidence that some people at least will recognize maybe this isn't the cut-and-dry situation some of the anti-Tubman crowd present it as.
 
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