The Most Effective World-Dominating Strategy: The Banker... learn how!

Azik Blaze

Chieftain
Joined
Dec 21, 2002
Messages
15
Never underestimate the power of money. With this strategy it is possible to invade a nation without firing a shot, to double/triple/quadruple your treasury and bring mighty nations to their knees all while profitting in every category. How? By starting wars, but not with alliances, and not with bribes, but with loans of gold! It is tricky (and you need patience), but done properly, extremely effective.

I will explain how to accomplish this by giving you a history of my nation, Nisusia. Also understand that I'm playing on a 256xy map with 31 nations and considerably hindered tech-progress (BIG Game).

My initial wealth base was gained when I discovered the western hemishpere (about 15 nations). I, in fact, only "discovered" 1, but by trading contacts back and forth I ended up with all, and I then sold those contacts, along with maps and a few new technologies, to nations that would pay the highest price for them. This is how I accumulated a large treasury in a short amount of time, by frugally trading with the right nations to get the best possible deal for my nation.

Now I had the money to covertly start a war. So I looked around for 2 countries with bad relations (at the time, the world was at peace), found... Rome and France. This was a golden opportunity, as the two shared a border rich in resources. They both had embargo's against each other and my advisor said that they would probably allow a military alliance against each other, but the big thing is, Rome is a militaristic civ, France is not, Perfect! :evil: The stage was set.

I went to Rome, gave 'em a big loan which brought all of their per turn surplus into my hands. They now have a massive treasury. What do they do with it? Why, being a militaristic civ, and with bad relations with France, they rush-build their armies. So the armies are completed, now they have to pay extra gold per turn for those units, but they can't of course, because I have their surplus! So what do they do, decrease spending? No, they attack France's resource rich cities! Now I have them by the balls!

Now France is in bad shape, up against a much mightier opponent. They need to rush-build their armies but with what money? Mine, which I have so graciously loaned to them. I am funding both sides of the war :evil:

Now it becomes an even fight, with those resource-rich cities being taken back and forth, gained and lost, the whole area decimated by war. The cities are turned to rubble, and the resources are lost. Lo and behold, here comes a team of Nisusian settlers! Protected by a small but technologically-superior force, as while the two nations have been pouring their efforts into the war machine and cutting back on research and city improvements, I have far surpassed them by using the surplus income! The settlers (along with a workforce), establish cities and take the resources.

So by funding the attacker first and then the defender, I have decimated both, and have gained their resources, which I will trade back to them, once the loan expires ;) .

Of course, both these nations made Alliances, which spawned more alliances, and now most of the world is at war; a great opportunity for me to further increase my power grab. I have implemented this system all over the world, and have gained enormously in many ways, monetarily, scientifically, militaristically, etc. This system empowers you more than the possesion of nukes, as you expand your nation in every way while IMPROVING your reputation and foreign relations. Nisusia went from a mediocre nation to the world's #1 superpower by doing this.

There are many benefits and different uses and variations of the system, I have thrown nations into anarchy, forced governments to change from democracy so that I could assimilate their near-by city into my nation, I'll describe how in a later post perhaps. For now, hope this will suffice in showing you how to peacefully invade the world and rule the world behind the scenes, Illuminati-style!. [pimp]
 
I have definitely never seen a thread anything like this. What kind of loans are you talking about? 800 gold for 50gpt? More? Less? Also, what level are you playing on and what time period are you in? The AI rarely has any gpt to spare during the Ancient or Middle Ages, but in the Industrial Age they finally start to pay. I am quite intrigued.
 
Yes, the loan consists of a lump sum in exchange for gold-per-turn (surplus). Loan interest rates go anywhere from 2.9% to 10%, though I am unsure as to what affects these rates (still trying to figure it out). Yes, it is in the early industrial age with difficulty at regent (or medium you could say).

So say Rome is making a surplus of 15 gpt, and the interest rate (or currency exchange is maybe what it reflects) is 5%. So I loan them 315 gold (15 gpt x 20 turns + 5% interest). They build their army or improvements and suddenly they have extra maintenance costs but that 15gpt that would cover the costs is instead coming to me.

If you do this to enough nations you create a system where a nation's progress and competitiveness is determined by it's ability to obtain a loan from you. It's with this power that you hold a throttle on a nation's prosperity over another, and this is how you can begin and control wars and economies.
 
Are you playing on an early patch, perhaps? Somewhere around the second patch, the game was changed so the AIs wouldn't pay out more gold per turn than they had on hand. It was known back then that you could cripple them by sucking away all their income. But it's pretty much impossible to do anything like this in a current version of the game.
 
No, I have the latest version of the game. Please read the article carefully, you cripple the civ by empowering it to rush-build it's armies, therefore giving them the confidence to start war, and then you turn around and fund their rival civ.

Remember too, that if one side is winning, you are losing. Always be sure that the two warring nations are as close to balanced as possible. You should try your best to control tech-advantages and number of units via trade. There are many ways to do this. Like granting them lump sums of gold, or technology, or if not possible, look to see where they are getting their resources from and ask for trade embargo's, effectively disallowing that civ to build the resource-dependent unit.

Do everything you can to (covertly) even the battlefield.
 
I agree that you have a point here that others might have missed. However I see several drawbacks of this strategy.
- How can you be sure that either side will rush units and start a war with the opponent? (OK your case was special but such opportunities would not be available all the time). Still you could target nations already in war but then it’s accidental not something that you trigger.
- You will see than on higher level the AI would pay minimal interest or would even pay you less. (on emperor and deity you get 17-19gpt for a 400 lump payment)
- The AI does raze but not always. Again it’s an accident that he razes a city not something that you plan to do.
- One, or both of the AI could declare war to you if they pay you too much gpt and thus free themselves of such obligations. This does not happen always and may be related to difficulty but I saw it happening a lot of times. Even the peaceful and polite Indians declared war when they couldn’t handle the 300 gpt they were paying to me.
Still it may be a nice tip for some.
Cheers,
 
I think the real benifit of this strat is draining the spare GPT to stop tech research.

We all know that the AI will *always* balance it's budget on a turn-by-turn basis, so taking 15gpt for 330 gold is good as they will not be able to spend it on research.

However, I refuse to believe that a sum as small as 330 gold will make any AI rush offensive units and go to war. It's just too far fetched.
 
I'm afraid I don't notice anywhere telling us what level this is being played on. What level is it? Even better, a saved game post would be nice.

-Sirp.
 
Originally posted by Azik Blaze
So say Rome is making a surplus of 15 gpt, and the interest rate (or currency exchange is maybe what it reflects) is 5%. So I loan them 315 gold (15 gpt x 20 turns + 5% interest).

In your example you are paying out more than you will recover, in essence giving a negative interest rate (man, I'd like to borrow some $$ from you!! I'll even pay it all back right away. ;) ). Is this deliberate (since your goal is not to make money but take their surplus away) or is this a mistaken example?
 
Yes, Speaker/ParkRanger, you're right. That was a posting-gaff of mine, sorry... While you can make money from the interest, the main power of this part of the strategy comes from the depletion of the AI's gpt.

Sirp - I always play with custom rules, I like to have all the rules even, no advantages to me or the AI... I am in the process of gathering more detailed information (like screenshots and game-posts) to show you guys.

Anarres - Hindering the research is a large benefit of the strategy, but there are many others just as good... I was only using the 300 gold figure as an example, the actual loan I gave to Rome was in the thousands, and being an aggressive, militaristic civ with bad relations with a neighbour, they used it to build-up arms.

T-Hawk - It seems you're confusing the word 'dominate' with the word 'conquer'. In order to dominate, there needs to be other nations to dominate!! This strategy is the most effective at dominating your rivals because it increases your power while depleting theirs and with MINIMAL RISK. Of course you can't CONQUER the world with bank loans, but this strategy can soften it up if that is your ultimate goal. This is why I say this system can be more devastating to a rival than out-right nuking it, as other nations will rally behind your bombed victim and fight you.

and finally...

Yndy - Yes, it's accidental that the AI razes the cities, but it's done so because the two sides are even (or evenly-funded by you :evil: ). Since neither side has a clear advantage, cities are constantly won and lost (a-la Stalingrad in WWII) eventually reducing their populations to zero, turning them to rubble and freeing up all that real-estate (which sometimes includes resources), allowing you to settle the area if you so desire. You can effectively invade a country without invading :crazyeye: ... Through-out my experience with this method (and it's been extensive) I have had no problems with the AI turning on me. It would seem as though the AI is pre-occupied with it's arch-nemesis than to attack it's funder, as trading does improve your reputation with them.

As stated, I will go into even further detail about this method, and I how I have used it, in the future. For now I hope this clears my original article up for ya's. I'll say right now that I believe there are many other area's for this system to control, many ways to empower your nation than the few I will pointing out. Hopefully with more brains working on this we can come up with more clever schemes. :)
 
I think the main point that Azik Blaze wants to show is getting the AI to fight each other with wars of attrition. By having the AI in constant warfare, they will switch to communism or monarchy, killing it's research rate. Even if they stay in Republic or democracy, war weariness will kick in and the AI will be forced to hire alot of entertainers. In communism, the AI will pop-rush it's cities to near-death and more 'auto-razes' will happen. Many times when an AI is wiped out of offensive units it will send a defender in to pillage tiles. If the opponent has run out of offensive units also, it can't attack that pillager, so soon the AI is wiped out of terrain improvements which will also destroy it's economy. Giving the AI techs that allow strong defenders (gunpowder, nationalism, replaceable parts, etc.) will help keep the AI involved in very slow progressing wars.
 
Well, when some one says I always play "custom rules" you know you are not in Kansas any more Dorothy.

The better players have probably controlled the game by the time this strat produces any real fruit and sounds more like piddling around. Any of the other side effects of playing the game like "auto-razing", civs being in war and killing AI research rates can be accomplished in much more forth right manners. If you have left the AI with the ability to pay you GPT then you have not been applying enough pressure on them. But, if that's the case then you can resort to this.

[edit:spelling]
 
Having read :
- this thread,
- your other thread in the Tips section from 2 days ago where you actually ask for help from people on what "interest" you can get from loans to AIs,
- plus the thread in RBciv (wrong place for a big mouth buddy!), I am flabbergasted at your condescending, arrogant tone of voice : you really do believe you are such a genius that has found the ultimate strategy to win at Civ3 !
:lol:
:rotfl: :rotfl:
:lol:
At least I had a good laugh thanks to you... ;)
 
I always play with custom rules, I like to have all the rules even, no advantages to me or the AI...

umm...ok, this essentially means a level below Regent. When you have a strategy that works well on Deity (or maybe Emperor), then let us know. Many players here, including myself, could beat the level you describe with our hands tied behind our backs.

-Sirp.
 
Originally posted by Skyfish
Having read :
- this thread,
- your other thread in the Tips section from 2 days ago where you actually ask for help from people on what "interest" you can get from loans to AIs,
- plus the thread in RBciv (wrong place for a big mouth buddy!), I am flabbergasted at your condescending, arrogant tone of voice : you really do believe you are such a genius that has found the ultimate strategy to win at Civ3 !
:lol:
:rotfl: :rotfl:
:lol:
At least I had a good laugh thanks to you... ;)

Let's get one thing straight pal: I do not come here to hype myself up, nor do I come here to get flamed. I started the thread because I wanted to help and get more people experimenting with these unconventional tactics.

You people are criticising even before you've tried the strategy for yourselves. So I will not discuss this any further until I get some intelligent and constructive feedback from people who have tried it.
 
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