The Most EPIC Game of CIV IV I've Ever Seen (aka The Most BRUTAL Immortal Game EVER (Charlie) by Henrik)

[Plains-Cow]

I've seen a lot of great games of CIV IV played over the years and had some really epic moments myself. However, these games are typically defined by one, two, or perhaps three major plot beats. Not so with the game that this thread's based on; I just simply had to post it to the forum. I think that it'd be hard to top this game in difficulty, drama, suspense, and crazy RNG all in a single run.

Credit goes to @Henrik75 for playing out such a wild ride to its ultimate conclusion. Highly encourage a watch of the in-order videos and any strategy discussion below:

Spoiler Part one :

Spoiler Part two :

Spoiler Part three :

Spoiler Part four :

Spoiler Part five :

 

[sampsa]

Part one

Spoiler :

I dislike 1W T0, though it won't cost the game of course. But what the hell is monument first in 2nd city? Probably he wouldn't run into huge trouble if he used early better. Missing the beaver trade is beyond horrible. Honestly hard to watch.

 

[Plains-Cow]

Spoiler :

I dislike 1W T0, though it won't cost the game of course. But what the hell is monument first in 2nd city? Probably he wouldn't run into huge trouble if he used early better. Missing the beaver trade is beyond horrible. Honestly hard to watch.

Spoiler :

I often start with a worker. Most of the early drama is due to RNG and crazy barb pressure, but that's only the start of it. Keep watching and let us know your thoughts. How would you have played the open thus far?

 

[sampsa]

Spoiler :

Well nothing to do with a worker - 1W means one west. Lose a turn and a forest for future considerations. Otherwise city spots are good of course.

I mean it's not that you always run into such barb issues when you mostly ignore fog busting, but sometimes it happens. And when it happens you surely hope you didn't spend 30 on a relatively useless monument.

 

[Plains-Cow]

Spoiler :

Well nothing to do with a worker - 1W means one west. Lose a turn and a forest for future considerations. Otherwise city spots are good of course.

I mean it's not that you always run into such barb issues when you mostly ignore fog busting, but sometimes it happens. And when it happens you surely hope you didn't spend 30 on a relatively useless monument.

Spoiler :

I see. I thought it could mean shorthand for worker on turn zero or something as an errant thought. He put the monument down for faster clams. The capital would have expanded to it slowly. I like settling more inland myself; I prefer land tiles to water (providing they aren't deserts or peaks), and he didn't orphan the clams while still maintaining ocean trade access.

 

[sampsa]

Spoiler :

He put the monument down for faster clams. The capital would have expanded to it slowly.

No no. There is no clam in BFC of Prague - the city N of capital. There was nothing worth getting on the second ring, well silk but I don't see how that is very urgent.

 

[sampsa]

Can someone make a save? BUFFY immortal. If not, worldbuilder is fine.

 

[Plains-Cow]

Spoiler :

No no. There is no clam in BFC of Prague - the city N of capital. There was nothing worth getting on the second ring, well silk but I don't see how that is very urgent.

Spoiler :

Ah, I see Prague as the second city. You can see the Khmer borders near it. I believe it was primarily chosen to culture push so as to dissuade Surry (after seeing his borders nearing him same-turn) from settling the area north against him and and only secondarily to secure the silk. There's a lot more to see afterward.

 

[sampsa]

Spoiler :

You can see the Khmer borders near it. I believe it was primarily chosen to culture push so as to dissuade Surry (after seeing his borders nearing him same-turn) from settling the area north against him and and only secondarily to secure the silk. There's a lot more to see afterward.

Sure. But it doesn't dissuade Sury from doing anything. Even if it did, 30 early is a massive price to pay. And then that led to barb issues etc etc. Snowball.

There certainly is a lot to see afterwards and after correct opening play there would be nothing to see really.

 

[Plains-Cow]

Spoiler :

Sure. But it doesn't dissuade Sury from doing anything. Even if it did, 30 early is a massive price to pay. And then that led to barb issues etc etc. Snowball.

There certainly is a lot to see afterwards and after correct opening play there would be nothing to see really.

Spoiler :

Get ready to see how it gets pulled out of the fire, especially with the RNG. It gets WILD.

 

[Henrik75]

Spoiler :

I don't really see monument first making or breaking the game. Ok 2 extra warriors would help. but popping borders in that city reveals a ton of tiles and that also helps. if anything it should have been whipped earlier. 30 hammers being wasted is nothing compared to 90 hammers on 3 chariots dying at 80%+

Also not getting dowd early by Sury at pleased also makes or breaks a game 10x moreso than 30 hammers. In hindsight horse archer rushing him might have been easier.

It's also very strange behaviour of the barbs to walk straight past Sury's border. Maybe if I settled on a gold it would have been watchable..

 

[sampsa]

Spoiler :

Well, nobody can force you to learn or to be self-critical, thus I suppose this answer is written to the ones who want to learn.

Two early 15 warriors fog busting would surely make a world of difference. There are two excellent videos here https://www.youtube.com/@drewphataman5208 which can be eye-openers to even some more experienced players. You say "popping borders in that city reveals a ton of tiles", but those tiles were fog busted by Sury anyway so I don't even understand the argument. If there is a real rational argument in favor of that monument (vs 2*warrior) I am listening.

Sometimes you get unlucky, I'm not saying that. You can't control that. You can control your decisions so that's what you should focus on. In the game a lot of risk was taken and due to poor luck sheet hit the fan. You chose to take that risk. A stronger play would've been not to take unnecessary risk.

 

[sampsa]

Still waiting for that save!

 

[Plains-Cow]

Spoiler :

I don't really see monument first making or breaking the game. Ok 2 extra warriors would help. but popping borders in that city reveals a ton of tiles and that also helps. if anything it should have been whipped earlier. 30 hammers being wasted is nothing compared to 90 hammers on 3 chariots dying at 80%+

Also not getting dowd early by Sury at pleased also makes or breaks a game 10x moreso than 30 hammers. In hindsight horse archer rushing him might have been easier.

It's also very strange behaviour of the barbs to walk straight past Sury's border. Maybe if I settled on a gold it would have been watchable..

Spoiler :

The real suspense was the rush against Justinian. I almost died from seeing

Spoiler :

Hatty stuffing troops into the final culture city and you barely had enough units to take it with one turn remaining. However, what was even crazier was

Spoiler :

seeing that you only had 7 turns left until the next city hit legendary culture! What a thrilling watch!

 

[Henrik75]

@sampsa

Spoiler :

ill investigate the drew vids again thanks for linking those. Barbs are by far the part i struggle with the most particularly on deity games. Doesnt hurt to reinforce good habits but also keep in mind anything on immortal i wont be playing 100% perfect, so yes those may be unwatchable for you. I have to really be in the zone to play deity properly where as immortal ill get home and click next turn a bunch. Actually my deity games have gone horribly lately, I blame work. Need to brush up...

@Plains-Cow

Spoiler :

yes it was probably one of the most insane recoveries, the fact it came down to 1 turn and 4 units then only 7 turns for the next city was probably the most suspense in any civ4 video. The GNP situation after the sury war was looking beyond hopeless with justin at rocketry when I met him.

 

[drewisfat]

I find any video that slanders Charlemagne as the worst leader to be completely UNWATCHABLE!
To be fair though, Sury's borders weren't visible when the monument was started and a border pop does pick up a mountain for vision. Games like this are why I stopped trusting chariots for active tile defense. They're no axemen. I'm not always a full fogbust purist though. I probably would have greeded for GLH here and fallen back on PRO walls if necessary.

 

[Thrasybulos]

Still waiting for that save!

I don't do discord, but I believe Henrik's saves are available there?

 

[Plains-Cow]

I find any video that slanders Charlemagne as the worst leader to be completely UNWATCHABLE!
To be fair though, Sury's borders weren't visible when the monument was started and a border pop does pick up a mountain for vision. Games like this are why I stopped trusting chariots for active tile defense. They're no axemen. I'm not always a full fogbust purist though. I probably would have greeded for GLH here and fallen back on PRO walls if necessary.

I figured it was a placeholder build so as to focus on other things before ending the turn and he just decided to keep it after seeing how close the Khmer were. I always find that active tile defense it a bit of a nailbiter. Every time I'm not fogbustmaxxing I feel like I get reminded why it's really the best way to go about things 99% of the time when trying to deal with barbs.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

I find any video that slanders Charlemagne as the worst leader to be completely UNWATCHABLE!

lol

His UB is incredibly strong in games that go long, far from the worst leader because of that.

 

[Chalybion]

Spoiler :

Browsing through the Part 1 video: After four cities and the Pyramids, there were no good city sites left. A late-ish horse archer rush on Sury looks like a good play; he's still a ways from feudalism, and the war becomes very winnable when pillaging iron is prioritized. Get Alpha and leave Sury with a bum city or two to take his technologies for peace. Beeline Optics/Astro to meet the other continent.