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The most hatred-filled review you'll come across

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Andulias, Jun 18, 2012.

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  1. thadian

    thadian Kami of Awakened Dreamers

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    Like in politics, it holds true with everything.

    Positive ads are usually full of "plugs" with minimal information and no mention of flaws. Positive ad's go so far to maintain tone they pretend a gift from heaven has been delivered unto earth.

    Negative ads are usually full of criticism, with a LOT of information and objectivity. Sometimes the flaws are exaggerated to live up to the stance.

    That said, negative ad's are ALWAYS more informative than positive ones, and positive ad's usually are made in the form of "company employee goes to review site, pretends to be a normal reviewer and spams positivity".

    This can be combined with removing any comments that arent positive or making 20 accounts to trash the person who complained, so it looks like one crybaby has a problem and 20 normal people set him straight when in reality its one HUMAN on both sides.

    I personally ignore ALL positive ads and reviews, smelling either a paycheck or brown nose. I also pay attention to ALL negative ad's then look closer at the information to see what holds water.
     
  2. nokmirt

    nokmirt Emperor

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    The only way to know is to play it yourself.
     
  3. gfds

    gfds Chieftain

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    For people dismissing the review because it's Tom Chick and he didn't like Deus Ex:

    a) Every criticism he had of Deus Ex was legit. His main problems were technical issues (the game looked bad even for its time yet it didn't run well at all), the AI (which is completely fair) and the world was had to get immersed in (medkits, ammo and biocells inside an average apartment when the game is trying to tell you everyone is poor?).

    b) He was the only one who called out Civ V on all if its at release while every other reviewer was throwing 9/10 scores at a game which was severely imbalanced, had massive technical issues, no multiplayer and an AI which can't even play the game.
     
  4. AfterShafter

    AfterShafter Deity

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    Thadian, there are actually elements of your posts I agree with. Positive reviews are very fluffy and pretty damned suspect. In many cases, they're cranked out of review factories on an assembly line and some of the largest reviewing sites have been caught being influenced, directly, by developers and producers of game (see: Gamespot, Cane and Lynch). What you're saying is pretty spot on with a lot of the "ZOMG BEST GAME EVAR!" type reviews, and there are far, *far* too many of them.

    You bring up negative political campaigns VS positive ones as evidence that the positive stuff is just fluff and the negative is far more objective? No, sorry - if you have actually payed attention to politics in the past... Uh... Lifetime... You'd be *painfully* aware that while a great degree of the positive stuff is fluff, the negative stuff tends towards slander or libel. It ignores central issues for things like claims of lack of citizenship, grandstanding portraying the other side as a coward as they portray you as a coward while both sides draw attention away from the good of both sides, making questions of the moral character of the candidate the primary focus to draw attention away from obvious qualifications, etc etc etc. It's ALL smoke and mirrors, not just the positive stuff.

    Negative pieces are every bit as non-objective and misinformed as positive. It's the user-review-0 for games a person has never played... There are *lots* of negative reviews which are slam pieces first, objective reviews second. Pretending like negative reviews/political campaigns/etc are the more honest and genuine is just disingenuous yourself - they're both, on average, loads of flim flam. When you find a good reviewer, stick with them, because they're rare - it's not a case of all the "good" reviewers going over into the "negative" camp.

    If this is indicative of the type of stuff that netted you your 30 infractions, I'm sorry, but it's pure delusion to believe that it's just because you were "too object for the sheeple to handle" or some such. Up to 31... And heck, probably one for me, but I would like to point out that I'm not namecalling or any some such.

    Moderator Action: The post by thadian in question has been deleted.
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
  5. thadian

    thadian Kami of Awakened Dreamers

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    I agree with you but the negative ad's are usually more informative and researchable because something is attempting to be disproven or colored in badly. This always leads to more sources and materials of research than "lipstick on a pig" or "sugar-coated dog poo".

    Besides, negative/positive there is always an agenda and its easier to debunk negative ones.

    I always start research looking at the negative or opposition FIRST, then rebuttal second. That way i can find out the bad, see if there is a counter to it then look for the good thats left, an re-reference it to the bad to see how much self-eliminates. Swallowing a hard pill from the opposition is also a good way to overcome hindsight bias.

    And believe it or not my infraction count is VERY high, from those threads primarily. When im negative, i swing the ball out of the park and sometimes, through the foul zone XD

    Moderator Action: No it isn't. So please do not make claims to the contrary for whatever reason. The rules allow you to state facts regarding bans and infractions so long as you do not add in any opinion ("I have been banned before" is okay, but "I have received a stupid ban before" is not), but that doesn't extend to allowing you make false claims (and I don't know why you are doing so anyway).
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

    but for what it's worth, i am still here and haven't been banned or blocked so... cheers. Too bad more objective people arent writing the reviews because all the positive reviews i see look like they just copy-pasted each other and changed a few words or read a script sent by the company and changed a few words.
     
  6. bpower

    bpower Chieftain

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    His comments about the AI are interesting. He said the AI still exposes their generals, but in the recent video from fraxis the producer specifically mentioned this as something they fixed. If he's right and Fraxis are wrong I'll be pissed.

    He also mentioned the AI sitting there allowing you to nail them with range units without response and that ridiculous dance around their target without actually attacking. If he's right about these then again I'll be pissed.

    And as a previous poster said, he was dead right about vanilla and everyone laughed at him for being some sort of crank. Remember?
     
  7. BobDole

    BobDole American Leader in Civ VI

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    He didn't ignore the new additions at all...
    -He felt religion was too similar to other systems, and shouldn't have become irrelevant by midgame.
    -He felt spies weren't really that useful.
    -He felt the interfaces for the new systems sucked.
    -He felt the AI was still bad, despite Firaxis claiming it was improved.
    -He liked the scenarios, but still felt they were held down by weaknesses related to the overall game.
    So yeah, I would say he didn't ignore the new additions to the gameplay, he just felt they weren't good ones. And that's OK.
    It's amusing that a lot of people are ripping Tom Chick now, because a few years ago, everyone was saying he was the one unbiased reviewer regarding Civ V. To me, this review suggests that those who like Civ V will enjoy the new expansion, and that those who weren't impressed with it may continue to avoid it. To each their own. I'll probably love the expac, but if someone else doesn't, whatever.
     
  8. Andulias

    Andulias A Stranger on a Train

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    -We have all seen the menus. So far I haven't heard a single person complain about how ugly they are. They fit in well enough with the other UI elements and to me his complaint is exactly a personal opinion turned fact.

    -Same could be said for religion in Civ 4. After you adopt Free Religion (and at least I always did) there was no religious influence whatsoever. I think it worked wonderfully that way, no idea if he had a beef with that system. And I can argue that having religion relevant throughout the game will neither be that realistic (modern-day religious terrorists are using religion as an excuse, nothing more than that), nor will it be a good idea from a gameplay perspective, because religion fading out over time brings to the game a much needed sense of progression.

    He ignores the new units, doesn't go into how much they enrich the gameplay, instead he bashes the game some more. Do these units flesh out the roster? Do they make end-game warfare more interesting? You can't say judging from this review.

    And, like someone else pointed out, it's quite funny that we see a certain Barcelona captured by the Mongolians. He most definitely didn't have any problems defeating the AI, no sir!

    I can't talk abut his Civ 5 review. While I have been monitoring CivFanatics and Apolyton for years, you can clearly see I registered only a month ago. But reading it now, it is better than his G and K one. He acknowledged both what was wrong and what was done right, and he mostly complained about the AI and the SPs (which I like just as much as civics, but I can see where he's coming from). And then this comes:
    It's completely inaccurate, not to mention that I don't see how big numbers make the game messy or less like a board game. But in my last Civ 4 playthrough one of my cities was producing more than 400 beakers. Now imagine what my whole empire was producing. It's hardly a small, tight number.
     
  9. smallfish

    smallfish Immortal

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    He doesn't respect Warren Spector's magnum opus?

    lol
     
  10. chazzycat

    chazzycat Deity

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    This is friggin hilarious, given most of his article focuses on how bad the AI is. What a tool.
     
  11. BobDole

    BobDole American Leader in Civ VI

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    The AI can still capture a city and be bad. I've had times where the AI took ages to take one of my cities because they surrounded it with too many ranged units. Just because the AI captured a city doesn't mean it's good now.....
     
  12. smallfish

    smallfish Immortal

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    They always bring melee units along. I guess they might have been spamming helicopters endlessly (which imo should be able to take cities given that lancers/AT guns can)?

    Anyways I've had games where given wide land spaces, the AI tried flanking my cities when their targeted one proved too difficult to capture. Thanks to those damn elephants, good lord those elephants even LKs can't dent, I... still beat them back but lost the war and any possible chance of survival against this runaway foe.
     
  13. AlpsStranger

    AlpsStranger Jump jump on the tiger!

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    Yeah, I'm staying as far away from this forum as possible for about a month after this is released. If I hate G&K I'll just mourn my $30 and move on. If I love it I refuse to wade into what I don't doubt will be a similar garbage dump. Either way I'm going to be gone for a while after release.

    Learned my lesson the first time when you a**holes managed to make me want to smash my keyboard on a daily basis. Yes, Civ5 is flawed, why don't you remind me a few hundred thousand times so you can sabotage the parts of Civ5 I do enjoy.
     
  14. Eagle Pursuit

    Eagle Pursuit Scir-Gerefa

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    lol. You and me both.
     
  15. Andulias

    Andulias A Stranger on a Train

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    Nevertheless by posting that exact screenshot he shoots himself in the foot, not to mention it's the only shot. And please, take a look at the quote about his war with the Mongolians. The AI was throwing a lot of units at him. By that logic all the warfare and unit types in Civ IV are meaningless, the AI just throws them at you, so you could care less what the units are. We all know that simply isn't true for either game.

    One last thing - I am really getting the feeling that he played a single game and judges the whole expansion based on it. Hardly the right way to judge an expansion pack for a Civ game. I maintain my opinion of him. This is not real game journalism in my eyes.
    That's a great idea mate, I am on the verge of doing that myself :D.
     
  16. spider1

    spider1 Prince

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    meh.......one man's joy is another man's waste of time. That will never change.
     
  17. bcaiko

    bcaiko Emperor

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    I have to respect this guy's opinion somewhat, seeing as he's played the game and I haven't. But as to these points:

    * He complains that Religion is another tech tree, but it doesn't really behave like one at all. Sure, the basics are "gain X for Y benefit"...but what other system are you going to use? Further, the similarity really ends there. Not everyone gets the same Beliefs (while everyone can get the same Techs); you don't need on Belief to unlock another (just need to advance the Religion); and there's a competition with Religion, since not every Civ can found one. Just from the mechanics we know about, I'd have to say the Reviewer seems very wrong on that point.

    * We know Religion fades in force with regards to diplomacy, but the effects/benefits of Religion still impact the game. It does also become more difficult to advance. But I doubt that makes "Just War" an "irrelevant" 20% modifier to your troops, ect., ect. I'll be interested to see what Religion's impact is on multiplayer.
     
  18. headcase

    headcase Limit 1 Facepalm Per Turn

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    I think he must have meant to say religion is too much like Social Policies. If social policies were served on a "first dibs" basis, if you could follow someone else's selections of SPs, if the following of SPs was on a city-by-city basis that spread through "pressure", SPs were purchased with faith with only 5 or 6 throughout the game, etc, etc etc.

    I should try to learn what this reviewer's favourite strategy game is just to find how many dozen things in that game "act like a tech tree".
     
  19. AriochIV

    AriochIV Colonial Ninja

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    This particular review is laced with more venom than most, but if you look past that, he's saying pretty much the same thing that I'm getting from the majority of the reviews I've read: if you enjoy Civ V, then Gods & Kings improves the game with small and much-needed enhancements. The AI is better, but not much. Diplomacy is still very weak. If you found Civ V fundamentally flawed and unplayable, then G&K doesn't change the game significantly enough to change your mind. G&K is not the Beyond the Sword of Civ V.

    That's fine with me, because that's exactly what I expected. I think the danger of being disappointed is with expecting too much.
     
  20. Camikaze

    Camikaze Administrator Administrator

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    Yeah, this review might be entirely valid for someone who does not like Civ5 at all, but then that's probably not very applicable to those who are buying it.
     
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