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The most hatred-filled review you'll come across

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Andulias, Jun 18, 2012.

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  1. Lyoncet

    Lyoncet Emperor

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    Exactly. Everyone has an opinion. As a reviewer, your job is to give me the facts about the game so I can decide whether it sounds like it's for me or not. That doesn't mean not having your own thoughts about it; it means divorcing your opinion and preferences from the game itself. If you want to talk about your opinion, do it on a web forum, or even in the comments section. Don't take a magazine/website's money so you can deliver a fundamentally flawed product to an audience that is trying to form an opinion on something.
     
  2. Maktaka

    Maktaka Warlord

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    Perhaps someone can explain this to me, because when I played BtS after playing CIV vanilla prior, I recall being annoyed at the clumsily implemented espionage, never seeing the way-too-late corporations, and never saw a random event worth worrying about. Compared to GalCivII's careful assignment of spies and buildup of a massive spy network in espionage and game changing random events (speed caps of 3 tiles in a game where 8 is common, automatic declarations of war, surprise super planets that can make a faction unbeatable if left alone) BtS just seemed like a halfhearted attempt to follow suit, and did poorly at it.
     
  3. mitsho

    mitsho Deity

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    Even if he's a bit negative in his review and he does put too much of his own opinion in, it's a refreshing read since many reviews either show a distinct lack of knowledge on Civ V (mentioning features that are in the base game already), stay too much on the superficial side (reiterating the basic elements of e.g. the religion system) or concentrate on positivity or non-substantial additions (like the civilizations). Now the question would be, if it's really possible to judge the AI from a few games...

    I doubt it, nevertheless, his opinion is interesting and shows us some problematic elements (which many guessed already). Thus I wouldn't call it the most hatred-filled review. And something to dampen the hype may be a good thing. Just look at how many pages this thread already has in comparison to the other review threads...
     
  4. Andulias

    Andulias A Stranger on a Train

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    Exactly my point. I always looked at the game as objectively as possible and tried to figure out what kind of a person t would appeal to, what the target audience is, and then evaluated how well the game would satisfy that audience's taste. Did I like Crysis? No. Did I think Crysis can satisfy the needs of a gamer looking for a FPS that isn't your typical linear corridor roller coaster? Yes.

    Oh, and even though I have defended Civ V on countless occasions, on launch for me it was 7.5. It wasn't a good game, but there was definitely a lot of potential. And after the patches a lot of that potential has already been realized, yet another thing this Chick guy ignores. Go figure.
    It wasn't so much what was added, as it was what was fixed. A surprisingly big revamp of the AI (I can even argue in vanilla it was just as bad as the one in V, and extremely predictable to boot), fleshing out to the units and adding new ones, making subtle, but well executed changes to many existing features (religion, the tech tree, vassal states and how they work) and some good old bug fixing. The thing is, what it did add felt superfluous to me as well. I mean, did Firaxis really think the religion system is so jaw-droppingly good that they had to rebrand it under a different name? Corporations were just plain stupid, and espionage, while better than vanilla, could have been taken a step further.

    Shame espionage in G and K seems pretty bare-bones to me. I was looking forward to a more complex system...
     
  5. AriochIV

    AriochIV Colonial Ninja

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    It was not the feature list that made BtS great -- espionage and coporations were nothing to write home about (though I personally liked the event system) -- it was the changes to the AI and game balance that finally made Civ IV "more than the sum of its parts" as someone else here said... a game you could play over and over and over again.
     
  6. Steamwerks

    Steamwerks Warlord

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    He actually said this in reference to the new units, as he felt they were superfluous in light of the still inept battle AI.

    The two systems are only similar in the most purely superficial sense. I actually like corporations a great deal, it's the only system in the game that incentivizes multiples of resources, and the effect is a perfect fit for the industrial boom phase when you're getting access to factories and rail, and the overall productive capacity of your empire is rapidly expanding. Furthermore, it requires a bit of analysis to determine which, if any, corporations are worthwhile in a given game, and this is something I like to see in a 4x title!
     
  7. ButSam

    ButSam King

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    I think my "favorite" line of the review is:

    Uhmmm -- does he realize that shaving technology IS actually improved by adding blades?

    I also find it pretty unfair that he thinks Faith is the same mechanic as Espionage. This was more true in BtS than it is in G&K, from my understanding of the systems. In BtS, you gain Espionage Points. Not so in G&K from my understanding. (It also isn't true from his description later on, so the review isn't even self-consistent.)

    I also don't like how he says Espionage is just a City State buying capability...but then also says you can use it to steal rival techs. You don't get that from putting the spy in a City State -- you have to pick one or the other!
     
  8. Buccaneer

    Buccaneer Deity

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    Tom Chick was the only reviewer to say that the "Emperor had no clothes!" of the first Civ5 release, when all other reviewers were gushing all over themselves. However, I will discount any review (or comparison to Civ5) if the reviewer has not played with at least some of the big patches in the past 18 months.
     
  9. Andulias

    Andulias A Stranger on a Train

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    And that's one of the reasons I discarded him :)
     
  10. OrsonM

    OrsonM Our man

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    I'm surprised how few have come to Tom's defense, considering how many kept him on a pedestal after his lukewarm review of Civ V (which was pretty reasonable despite his usually... erm... let's go with contrarian here).

    Orson predicts!, that on the third day... when everyone is whining about the game not living up to their expectations, that this review will be revisited.

    EDIT: Ok, scrap that, I just listened a podcast by Tom Chick and he's just an insufferable hipster (the type that giggles to himself after every "witty" comment he makes, don't believe me?, try one yourself). The guy just hates on things to be cool, he tries to add substance to his observations, but they are usually too damn shallow to be taken seriously.
     
  11. NotSure

    NotSure King

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    I thought this was a funny shot. I can't understand why someone would get so worked up over another persons opinion. I think there's probably some truth in every rave and rant you can find about this game or any other but, at the end of the day, it's just an opinion. At least he made me laugh.

    The combat AI isn't that horrible anymore to be fair. They've added a few fairly effective tactics, apparently made them better defenders, ramped up the amount of units they produce (sometimes way too many), piled on the bonuses and penalized the player (mainly with happiness, but also with gold and production) enough that now the AI presents a real threat on harder difficulties. But again, that was a funny line. +1 for witty sarcasm.

    I won't know if this is true for a few more hours, but based on what I've seen from the latest patch, I'm a little worried. Every game plays differently, but I've knocked out two games with the new patch and diplomacy was still pretty rough. AI repeatedly declaring war on AI with little or no consequence while at the same time continually denouncing and insulting me because I defeated an AI when I was attacked thousands of years earlier. This stuff doesn't really ruin the game for me like it does for some, but I was hoping for something different.
     
  12. pspboy7

    pspboy7 Prince

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    Interesting, here's how I see it...
    1. Religion: Has always spread itself, by word of mouth, writing, or a gathering or pilgrimage of followers.
    2. Importance of Religion: Faith is faith, you believe or disbelieve. It's significance in society is determined by it's observers (everyone else). USA, Canada, most of Europe were predominately Christian, but since the influx of other people, cultures, and faiths, it's taken a severe hit in how significant it is in the societies world-view. Religion is important on a personal level perhaps, but seems to mean less in a larger sense IMO.
    3. Espionage: Espionage has always been passive, it has to be, otherwise the people doing it would be easy to find! :D Kind of a silly thing to be mad about IMO. I take it he means passive in the sense that you can't really sabotage or start wars directly with spys. Still it may be interesting.
     
  13. AlpsStranger

    AlpsStranger Jump jump on the tiger!

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    Barf :vomit:

    I live just to piss those types off at this point.
     
  14. King Kalmah

    King Kalmah Magyar Madness

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    That may be,but if you bought a flat tire and keep patching it eventually it will go flat no matter how much you fix it.

    Its up to the corporation making the game/tire to improve its design not hope you and me can fix what they screwed up...
     
  15. thadian

    thadian Kami of Awakened Dreamers

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    a preference like this does not have much to do with credibility.

    Arguments do not stand on the weight of a personal stance of "i like or dislike game a". However, when giving positive reviews, it's hard not to sound like a company line.

    When giving a bad review or attempting to pronounce a game as bad, you "are trying to demonstrate something", which in this case, is his opinion. He has to explain why the content is "bad" or fails to live up.

    There are some games Tom Chick has taken stances against for various reasons, and personally i would rather read something from someone who doesn't "buy in" to everything and is willing to distance oneself from the bandwagons. In a few hours, we can all write our own opinions but for me - i will just take the time to step down from emperor to king and try to take it from scratch. I have a feeling my old strategies won't work anymore and i will try to test the new avenues.

    I would rather wait until at least the first patch to criticize too much, and the biggest thing for me is going to be the stability level of diplomatic actions. I personally hope for the better.
     
  16. Dearmad

    Dearmad Dead weight

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    I might not agree with his rating, but he makes a lot of good points. Hate filled? Rant? Nope, I don't see it.
     
  17. NBAfan

    NBAfan boss

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    I like Tom Chick. I don't always agree with him, but he's the one of the few major reviewers that will give AAA studio games fair review instead of an automatic 9.
     
  18. AfterShafter

    AfterShafter Deity

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  19. thadian

    thadian Kami of Awakened Dreamers

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    In regards to an earlier post i made, i am NOT implying that those who do not share my stance on ANY issue are "Sheeple".

    I am stating a belief about the Amalgamation Entity of Society, a combined entity (made of individuals) - which if looked at as a "person", (and indeed it is a person) is the "sheep". This is inherent and not meant to insult anyone or anything.

    Many "Societies" have done things that the majority of it's individuals disapprove of. Sometimes individuals do things the society holds views against.

    Societies and Individuals are both entities, and societies are able to be "puppeted" because while individuals are often wiser, the social entity comprised of those individuals can often be foolish. The best example is how modern media ALWAYS appeals to the "lowest common denominator" or the "dumbest person in the crowd" expecting the rest of the people in the crowd to automatically understand. Often, the illustrator of the view determines what characteristics are inherent in this person (the lowest), so this person is subjective and one persons lowest denominator might be another persons highest.

    Individuals are often hard to fool because they can think about things, while societies often don't think. Individuals normally have stable and consistent views, societies have a lot of mixed views and contradictory beliefs. (again, they are made up of people who think differently).

    NOBODY in my opinion is a "sheeple" - I recently read a good work called "For the good of others" which talks about how people create this label to "protect others" from things "that i myself won't fall for but others might". I am working hard to believe that individuals are competent, which is a tough thing to force myself to try to think after all ive seen. So please do not be offended by my previous post or this one.

    I apologize to anyone who feels insulted, or patronized.
     
  20. AriochIV

    AriochIV Colonial Ninja

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    I was impressed that several sites gave very serious reviews this time around (Rock Paper Shotgun was the best, I think). The best recommend G&K as a legitimate upgrade worth purchasing, while acknowledging that it doesn't solve all of Civ V's many problems.

    The initial flush of 9/10 reviews for Civ V as released was embarrassing, considering how flawed the initial release was. However entrenched his negative view of Civ V now is, I give Chick credit for at least not cowing to this initial campaign of misinformation.
     
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