The most powerful military in the game.

[Securion]

What civ do you think have the most powerful military in the game, and why?


Theoretically the most powerful military;

China: Double-fire Chu-ko-nus are almost impossible to stop. If the war drags on they can be upgraded and carry their logistic-like upgrade with them. Also, a lot of GGs lying around, and defensively they can be used to plant citadels everywhere.
Theoretically since they need to survive...

or

Mongols: They will finish the game during their Keshiks age, or at least weaken their opponents so much they can sail to a tech victory. There won't be enough CSs left for an enemy to snatch a Diplo victory. Cultural civs will be lying in smoldering ruins.
Theoretically since they need to do all this while the Keshiks are viable weapons...


Practically the most powerful military;

Germany: No matter what fancy strategy and UA or UU you have, they will simply outproduce everyone in everything. If you by chance are still alive by the time Germany researches Combustion, you will be facing a wall of steel called Panzers. There is no counter. You will simply get obliterated, humiliated and wiped off the map.

or

Babylon; Oh, so you have Samurais? Well, they have Musketmen. And by the time you have Musketmen they probably have Riflemen. Whatever you bring to the field they will consider it ridiculous and outdated. If you're lucky, they will just think you're a barbarian camp and leave you alone while they build spaceships. If not, they will wipe you off the map with units that would fit in a sci-fi movie while you desperately try to hit them with rocks and sticks. Your burning barbarian cities is a perfect setting btw for the Babylonian spaceships to take off and colonise the galaxy.


So I think Germany or Babylon have the best potential for having the most powerful military in the game.
With China and the Mongols as potentially dangerous as well... under certain circumstances...

Shaka?
Overrated.

 

[redwings1340]

A lot of it depends on the era, I think. In the end, though, I'd have to say Arabia as my choice. Camel archers are fantastic, and the rest of the civ is great with economic development (bazaar) that they have the ability to support and build their army without falling behind.

Arabia is just a great civ with arguably the best military unit, so I think I'd choose them as the best overall military.

 

[Bard]

I like to play Russia. Don't really know why. Maybe Russia just fits nicely into my forever expanding militaristic style of play or I've just read too much Dostoevsky.

Anyway, the moment I get Cossacks and I'm not horribly behind on tech, I just storm the world. This usually wins me the game or, at least, get's me rather close. (emperor or immortal)

Anyway, Cossacks all the way.

 

[katfish]

Camel Archer, unlike Keshik( or any unit of that and next era while we at it) can attack cities(actually any unit) unharmed.
There is a reason Mongols eventually got pwnd by arabs.

 

[Plumfairy]

Camel Archer, unlike Keshik( or any unit of that and next era while we at it) can attack cities(actually any unit) unharmed.

What are you talking about? Keshiks are better than camel archers in almost every respect. They move faster, they gain levels faster, they generate great generals faster, and they can move after attacking just like camel archers. The only advantage camel archers have over keshiks is that they have a slightly higher ranged attack value. From a strictly military perspective, there's no contest; Mongolia is way better.

Of course, that amazing unit is pretty much the only thing you get with Mongolia. (Well... that & the khan that travels along with them.) With Arabia you get all sorts of nifty economic advantages. Plus the desert start bias.

 

[redwings1340]

What are you talking about? Keshiks are better than camel archers in almost every respect. They move faster, they gain levels faster, they generate great generals faster, and they can move after attacking just like camel archers. The only advantage camel archers have over keshiks is that they have a slightly higher ranged attack value. From a strictly military perspective, there's no contest; Mongolia is way better.

Of course, that amazing unit is pretty much the only thing you get with Mongolia. (Well... that & the khan that travels along with them.) With Arabia you get all sorts of nifty economic advantages. Plus the desert start bias.

To use a military you have to get to it. If Mongolia and Arabia are on a similar tech/production/income level, Mongolia should win with the Keshiks. Arabia can get to a higher level though, and camel archers probably can do pretty decently against Keshiks in the open field, one of the few units that can.

 

[Plumfairy]

To use a military you have to get to it. If Mongolia and Arabia are on a similar tech/production/income level, Mongolia should win with the Keshiks. Arabia can get to a higher level though, and camel archers probably can do pretty decently against Keshiks in the open field, one of the few units that can.

When I said that Mongolia is clearly better from a purely military perspective, I meant that if you compare two already-assembled armies of roughly the same size, Mongolia is clearly better... at least until keshiks start becoming obsolete. But yeah... Arabia will probably have a bigger army, thanks to all the cash he's raking in. In my experience Arabia doesn't tech to Chivalry any faster than Mongolia; you don't get bazaars until Currency, so they're usually just starting to kick in when I arrive at Chivalry.

 

[Tarvok]

Don't worry about us Mayans. We're just sitting here, peacefully out-teching or out-faithing you. We're no threat. Pay no attention to rumors of what we'll do in 2012...

lol, wouldn't it be great if the Mayan UU was some kind of fictional nuclear bomb, or maybe giant death robot?

(Actually, instead of struggling over the question of what to do with Japan's second slot, they should have gave them a second UU that is a Giant Death Robot. It would just be appropriate.)

 

[player1 fanatic]

What are you talking about? Keshiks are better than camel archers in almost every respect. They move faster, they gain levels faster, they generate great generals faster, and they can move after attacking just like camel archers. The only advantage camel archers have over keshiks is that they have a slightly higher ranged attack value. From a strictly military perspective, there's no contest; Mongolia is way better.

Camel Archers have both higher base power and range attack, so they are stronger in all respects in pure combat. Quicker promotions and general acquisition Keshik needs just to break even. Higher speed is nice, but not that much important (we are talking not about Arabs vs Mongols duel here, but one of those civ vs other civs).

Plus Arabia has economy UA and UB, so they can support more troops.

 

[Lord Yanaek]

Shaka?
Overrated.

You really think so?
Ikanda will get you "Unique Units" right with Bronze Working (well, i consider a 3move spearman with 25%better flank and 10% cover a UU), you can then upgrade them to one of the most devastating medieval UU in the game, one that sits right on an always go tech (civil service), one that will later upgrade to 3 move rifleman and possibly to 4 move mech infantry if you ever need to go this far in tech to win. And by that time, he should have enough promotions to attack twice while healing 15 HP/turn if he has a friend nearby.

 

[greygamer]

Camel Archers have both higher base power and range attack, so they are stronger in all respects in pure combat. Quicker promotions and general acquisition Keshik needs just to break even. Higher speed is nice, but not that much important (we are talking not about Arabs vs Mongols duel here, but one of those civ vs other civs).

Plus Arabia has economy UA and UB, so they can support more troops.

What you have to keep in mind is the Khan, it keeps up with a rapid advance and due to faster generation you can split your forces to out flank opponents or chain citadel your way to the enemy. The +1 movement is significant if you are attacking a civ that has the GW if you have Logistics you get 2 shots and a retreat move something not possible with the CA.

In a straight fight with the AI you will win with either UU, but Mongols make it easier imo. Against Human opponents it will depend on other factors, either UU is difficult to counter in multi-player.

 

[Clause]

How about england?

longbow n sotl seems forgotten in this thread

 

[joshua43214]

IMO, Zulu is the strongest by a pretty big margin.
The UA, UB, and UU work together so well that it is frightening.
Impi wit cover can just walk right through the GW and CB's get range almost right away. Latter in the game being able to produce arty and GWB's with logistics and air repair in all cities is awesome

 

[Greizer85]

On a water map England is horrific or ridiculous, take your pick. If you beeline SotL there is nothing your AI opponents can do to counter it... Maybe on Deity but Immortal was a cakewalk when I tried this.

On land, what joshua said above. I haven't played the Zulus that far but I have played against them... Well I *tried* anyway. Although I think they might need a slight nerf, it's nice to have a powerful early melee unit in the game, after a long period of ranged total dominance.

 

[Mozzington]

ENGLAND always. Longbow and SOTL...No comparisons.

 

[PrimoXanthous]

I say, Shaka would be the rank 1, the UA, UB and the UU are the best combination for spamming a large powerful army on Medieval Era where everyone is either bankrupt or don't have that enough army to defend their existence.

Keshik are formidable UU but they're ain't cheap as the Impi and do require resources to built. If they could be cheap as Zulu's UU, Khan would get the title.

ENGLAND always. Longbow and SOTL...No comparisons.

Then why does England always get beat up, when her neighbors are Khan and Shaka?, can't even research the tech that allow them to build the SotL before being wipe out in the map.

 

[PrimoXanthous]

Higher speed is nice, but not that much important

I don't think so, that +1 movement might be the very reason why your unit would never get hit by City range. And capture Cities with just 3 or 4 Keshiks.

 

[katfish]

Then why does England always get beat up, when her neighbors are Khan and Shaka?, can't even research the tech that allow them to build the SotL before being wipe out in the map.

Not long ago i saw england that manhandled both Shoshones and shaka when spawned on the small continent between them. Was quite a sight. I actually cant remember a single instance when England did poorly.

On a side note, the most funniest game i had in while was when i played continents, and just after i discovered and exchanged embassies with Shaka, i saw William's sea beggars swarm Ulundi.
Newer underestimate Dutch and England.

 

[Securion]

On a water map England is horrific or ridiculous, take your pick. If you beeline SotL there is nothing your AI opponents can do to counter it... Maybe on Deity but Immortal was a cakewalk when I tried this.

On land, what joshua said above. I haven't played the Zulus that far but I have played against them... Well I *tried* anyway. Although I think they might need a slight nerf, it's nice to have a powerful early melee unit in the game, after a long period of ranged total dominance.

As Ottoman I just move in my THREE TIMES larger fleet that I only pay ONE THIRD upkeep for, and got FOR FREE by capturing barbarian ships; and capture every single one of those juicy Ship Of The Lines quite easily.

 

[PrimoXanthous]

Not long ago i saw england that manhandled both Shoshones and shaka when spawned on the small continent between them. Was quite a sight. I actually cant remember a single instance when England did poorly.

On a side note, the most funniest game i had in while was when i played continents, and just after i discovered and exchanged embassies with Shaka, i saw William's sea beggars swarm Ulundi.
Newer underestimate Dutch and England.

wow, exact opposite of what happening to my games, most of time . Dutch and English can't even survived till Renaissance era. By the early industrial they're already wipeout by other civ (Russia, Zulu, Mogolia, America, Germany)

maybe your playing with no extra Civ? try to add more, +2 or +3 more civ, then you will see how would they react to a over crowded neighborhood.

As Ottoman I just move in my THREE TIMES larger fleet that I only pay ONE THIRD upkeep for, and got FOR FREE by capturing barbarian ships; and capture every single one of those juicy Ship Of The Lines quite easily.

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