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The most valid point in favour of drug legalisation

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Janig, Feb 8, 2013.

  1. Janig

    Janig Prince

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    Hi guys. What is the most valid point in favour of drug legalisation? This topic is designed for us to reach a consensus. This topic isnt about whether drugs should be legal, but about what we agree as a group is the best pro-drug-legalisation point. poll
    • I think the best pro drug legalisation point is the fact our economy is slow, therefor fresh ideas are appealing.
    • Ziggy Stardust: The ability to monitor the product and the vendors and give the users more rights and protection.

    • Perfection/GoodSarmatian: Clinton, Bush and Obama all smoked pot and still turned out to be highly successful people

    poll: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=488068
     
  2. Borachio

    Borachio Way past lunacy

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    I think the best argument is that people have autonomy.

    It's a flawed argument, though, imo.
     
  3. Janig

    Janig Prince

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    In English please Borachio...
     
  4. Borachio

    Borachio Way past lunacy

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    Oh sorry. I mean: people are entitled to do what they please with their own bodies.

    It's a point of view. And quite a strong one.
     
  5. Ziggy Stardust

    Ziggy Stardust New Englander

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    The ability to monitor the product and the vendors and give the users more rights and protection.
     
  6. Janig

    Janig Prince

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    Ziggy Stardust thats a good point to think about.

    Borachio people arent entitled to do what they want with their own bodies, what planet are you living on.


    Moderator Action: Warned for trolling
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
  7. Borachio

    Borachio Way past lunacy

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    I did say it was a flawed argument, didn't I?

    But in what ways do you feel constrained in respect to what you can do with your own body?
     
  8. Samson

    Samson Deity

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    To me the most obvious argument is the societal harm of prohibition. From the vast profits available to criminals, through the criminalization of large sections of the population to the harm done by addicts to pay the very high prices for their fix (burglary etc.).
     
  9. Janig

    Janig Prince

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    Samson could your point fall under 'fragmentation of society'? There are people who object to drug legality, so fragmentation of society might occur anyway. Also while I may agree with your sentiment, we're here to provide positive points in favour of drug legalisation, rather than complaining about the way it is :)

    Borachio writing something is flawed does not justify the fact it's flawed. Youre welcome to leave this discussion if you arent going to contribute.
     
  10. Borachio

    Borachio Way past lunacy

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    You wanted what I thought was the most valid point in favour of drug legalisation.

    I gave it to you.

    I do think personal sovereignty is the most valid point. I think it's a very strong point. I do recognize though that it's a flawed argument. But it is extremely hard to argue against. And delineate exactly where the flaw lies.

    You either agree with me or not.
     
  11. ace99

    ace99 Deity

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    I find compelling the notion that prohibition of drugs leads to an increase of violence and serves to turn what should be treated as public health issue into a criminal issue that empowers the privatized prison-police-security-industrial complex and thereby serves to perpetuate a never-ending cycle of drug-use, poverty, crime and corresponding harsh punishments which continually force people back into the drug trade and drug use.
     
  12. Stapel

    Stapel FIAT 850 coupé

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    I'm with Borachio here. It's nobody's god damn business whether I pollute my own body with poison.
     
  13. GoodSarmatian

    GoodSarmatian Jokerfied Western Male

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    The most valid point should be evidence whether a certain policy makes does more harm than good.

    It is if what you put in your body is likely to make you a threat or a burden to society. Outcomes should always matter more than vague and simplistic principles.
     
  14. Borachio

    Borachio Way past lunacy

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    Yes.

    The trouble with this line of reasoning though, it seems to me, is: Where does it begin and end?

    Should eating fatty foods be illegal too? Since they're as liable to make you a burden to society as many illegal drugs.

    Talking about outcomes is simply utilitarianism, isn't it?
     
  15. Perfection

    Perfection The Great Head.

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    Clinton, Bush and Obama all smoked pot and still turned out to be highly successful people.
     
  16. GoodSarmatian

    GoodSarmatian Jokerfied Western Male

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    This is to be decided from case to case. The 'trouble' is that it requires discussion, evaluation and the occasional judgement call.

    Now that's just strawmaning the issue. A Big Mac isn't good for you but it's harmless compared to heroin.

    Yes. Nothing wrong with utilitarianism per se as long as you don't throw ethics and principles out of the window.
     
  17. Janig

    Janig Prince

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    GoodSarmatian your point coincides nicely with Perfection's:
    As Perfection's point is more specific than yours I will use that to cover both, unless you want to use a different example? Btw I didnt know Clinton and Obama tried weed thanks.
    ace99 I dont think you can prove the never ending cycle aspect. Also whether something is a public health issue or a criminal issue is neither here nor there, the two departments arent mutually exclusive so overall Im not convinced yet. Maybe you can change my mind.
    Yes Stapel you are with Borachio here, in so far as you write like a child. One doesnt use It's to start a sentence in English. Your sentence would make more sense like 'I pollute my own body with poison and it's Nobody's business'.
    Nobody agrees with you.

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  18. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo Deity

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    I agree fully with Borachio.
     
  19. Borachio

    Borachio Way past lunacy

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    I don't.

    But seriously:
    True

    I don't agree. Obesity is a real looming huge societal problem. I am told.

    According to some, heroin is itself largely harmless. It's the associated lifestyle that damages. But, please note well, I'm no apologist for heroin.

    The major problem with utilitarianism, as far as I recall, is that there is no truly self-regarding action. And there's other big big problems with it too. But, hey, I forget all that stuff.
     
  20. Janig

    Janig Prince

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    Well each of the 3 ideas we have seem really convincing to me.

    Clinton, Bush and Obama all smoked pot and were successful
    Our economy is slow, therefor fresh ideas are appealing
    Monitoring the product, giving users more rights and protection

    I'll start a poll with these ideas sometime to gauge how popular they are and you can chime in here if youre really keen. Im undecided which is the best idea, for now Im still welcoming new ones.
    Youre fully agreeing that there should be no consensus on life: Youre in the wrong topic.
     

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