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The most valid point in favour of drug legalisation

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Janig, Feb 8, 2013.

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The most valid point in favour of drug legalisation

  1. Our economy is slow, therefor fresh ideas are appealing

    3 vote(s)
    13.6%
  2. Monitoring drugs allows users more rights and protection

    14 vote(s)
    63.6%
  3. Clinton, Bush and Obama all smoked pot and were successful

    5 vote(s)
    22.7%
  1. Janig

    Janig Prince

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    Hi guys. There has been discussion on the question 'What is the most valid point in favour of drug legalisation?' and we produced three points. Now we have a poll to decide: What is the most valid point in favour of drug legalisation? The three points favouring drug legalisation are as follows:
    • Monitoring drugs allows users more rights and protection
    • Clinton, Bush and Obama all smoked pot and were successful
    • Our economy is slow, therefor fresh ideas are appealing

    Earlier discussion here forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=488002
     
  2. Janig

    Janig Prince

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    If a mod could change the 2nd poll option to "Monitoring drugs allows users more rights and protection" that would be great thanks. "To monitor the product" reads worse than "Monitoring drugs allows". Can delete this post after if youre in the mood.

    Moderator Action: Poll changed.
     
  3. Gucumatz

    Gucumatz JS, secretly Rod Serling

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    We have had 2 pretty decent discussions in the tavern over the last few weeks. Perhaps you could look them up (Patrick Kennedy and Driving Laws).

    Either way, all 3 of those reasons seem poorly thought out nor good enough arguments for legalization.
     
  4. Kennigit

    Kennigit proud 2 boxer

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    Nah I think monitoring the drug for more rights and protection is a fine argument. Having companies provide tobacco/alcohol and have some quality control/consumer protection means I'm more likely to not get some cruddy cut cigarette or cigar or some suspicious antifreeze hillbilly moonshine.

    The others are not really relevant. Especially individual persons.
     
  5. azzaman333

    azzaman333 meh

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    Yeah pretty much this.
     
  6. Janig

    Janig Prince

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    'Monitoring drugs allows users more rights and protection' is currently leading with 4 poll votes, and 3 more votes in the earlier discussion topic. 70% of votes is quite a convincing point in itsself, but Im not yet totally convinced. The pioneers who first tried drugs didnt try them to allow users more rights and protection; they cant have, because there were no previous users. Tell me Im wrong.
    I glanced at those topics, but why do you suggest theyre relevant? This topic is not an argument, its a popularity contest.
     
  7. bathsheba666

    bathsheba666 Fast 'n Bulbous

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    You failed to include autonomy in the poll as a valid point.

    This poll is flawed.

    I vote autonomy.
     
  8. ~Corsair#01~

    ~Corsair#01~ Deity

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    The most valid reason to legalise cocaine and marijuana is to stop the flow of countless billions of dollars to the murderous cartels in Latin America. If we take away their monopoly, these groups will rapidly dwindle in size and capability.

    I can't think of any reason why heroin or meth should be legal.
     
  9. Borachio

    Borachio Way past lunacy

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    Heroin is derived from opium isn't it? One of the main sources of which is Afghanistan.

    Need I say more?

    A good reason to legalize meth might be to more readily control its supply, and an individual's level of consumption. But I can see that it's not such a clear case as heroin and cocaine.
     
  10. civver_764

    civver_764 Deity

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    I don't see how legal heroin would be any different than legal oxycodone.
     
  11. Leonel

    Leonel Breakfast Connoisseur

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    I like the Doug Stanhope argument: "I have the right to do what ever the hell I want to my own body, if it kills me slowly, happy for me, **** you, "clack clack" (miming a pump-action shotgun) stop me!" followed by "There's only two types of people who are against drugs: the people who have never done drugs and the people who really sucked at doing drugs."
     
  12. GhostWriter16

    GhostWriter16 Deity

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    The right to choose what you put into your body? Seriously, at least prima facie that's a pretty good reason. And also the reason that I use, so I don't really like either one in the poll. I don't even believe government should be monitoring it other than to make sure people aren't selling to kids. People should be allowed to buy what they want and consume what they want, and that isn't just because it gives government tax money. Its because of human rights.
     
  13. Berzerker

    Berzerker Deity

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    heroin's a painkiller and meth suppresses appetite while fighting fatigue - i see value in both drugs

    and freedom
     
  14. GhostWriter16

    GhostWriter16 Deity

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    You really only needed two words of that post. The last two. Everything else is just fluff. I personally see no good reason to use any of them. Or cigarettes. And caffeine is probably not a good idea either, although I do use that. But the reality is, just because I don't think its a good idea to use cigarettes doesn't mean I think users should be imprisoned for it. My grandmother is a nicotine addict, and even though I wish she'd quit, I'd be far, far more angry at the government if they declared her a criminal than I am upset with her for hurting herself. Prohibition just makes it worse. So does taxation, although not to the same extent. Both increase the price and decrease the spending power of the addict. Which increases the odds of theft to pay for the addiction. Obviously, prohibition of drugs causes more of this than taxation, which is why you never hear about people stealing to get cigarettes. Its legal. They can get their fix easily.

    Pretty much this entire post was just additional fluff as well, however. The reality is, I don't care how stupid, pointless, or even immoral you consider drug use to be, and I would say that drug use is stupid, pointless, AND immoral. That is no excuse for the government to use violence to prevent a consenting adult to put harmful chemicals into their body. The government has no right to regulate personal life choices unless there is a victim.
     
  15. Core Imposter

    Core Imposter Deity

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    Of course I think the default position should always be to allow people the liberty to do what they want. And I believe that we should move away from that position only after great deliberation.

    I have a close family member who is an addict. The consequences and suffering are extreme. Ten years of hell. Thankfully things are better now but with addiction you live one day at a time. The whole family.

    So I am biased. There have been times that I could well have taken a gun and shot a dealer dead. Its been that bad.

    So how do I feel about it?

    I think that the laws we have on the books have failed. We have no shortage of supply on the streets and we criminalize people that use drugs recreationally, those that are not true addicts, and fail to provide resources to help those who are.

    And we have created a gang culture that spawns violence and crime.

    If you keep doing what you've always done, you'll keep getting what you've always gotten.

    I'd move slowly in terms of legalization but I think its time to do something different. The most valid point in favor of legalization is that criminalization appears to cost society more than it benefits.

    But that might be wrong. I'd say get the Federal government out of it and let the States determine local laws. People can then vote with their feet. Thats the way it is supposed to work under our Constitution.
     
  16. Kennigit

    Kennigit proud 2 boxer

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    aaaw, MC and Dommy post together on valentines :love:
     
  17. Eukaryote

    Eukaryote Deity

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    There are better arguments than all three of those.
     
  18. GhostWriter16

    GhostWriter16 Deity

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    I am, and always have been, in favor of getting the Federal government the heck out of the way. To use the Federal government to overturn a bad state law is like unleashing a dragon to deal with a bad king. That is to say, absolutely foolhardy, you'd be unleashing something far worse than whatever it is you were trying to deal with in the first place.

    You've got to remember that your family member was an addict in spite of the governemnt declaring him a criminal. Government prohibition didn't work. I don't know your situation, but I do know if your family member were allowed to access his drug legally, he'd be able to get them cheaper. At the very least, that would make it less likely that he would ever have to steal to pay for his addiction. It would make him more likely to be able to function better in society. Think of nicotine. I know multiple people who are addicted to it. Yet they do function relatively well in society. Why? Because its legal. Granted, the government is still screwing them over by taxing the heck out of it, but even still, it would be more expensive on the black market. Nicotine withdrawal causes problems, and some people try to quit and fail. While I don't know that all of them would steal to feed their addiction if that was their only choice, I suspect some people would. Yet since it is legal, they don't have to become criminals, they can instead pay a moderate price on the free market. Some drugs are even worse than nicotine of course (Although I don't think marijuana is) and the consequences of addiction are even worse. In some cases, such as heroin, the demand is totally inelastic, its so addictive that you'll pay any price after the first dose. Either the market will be allowed to drive the price down, and those people who would buy no matter what could do so without stealing, or they will be forced to pay extreme prices because of artificial supply decreases through prohibition and thus likely steal to get their drugs. As much as you may hate that drug dealer, his existance drove the price down and made your family member more able to pay for his addiction rather than have to steal to attain it.

    Let me be clear that i don't support drug use or drug sales. I am morally opposed to both. But I do not believe people should go to jail for either one of them. Government should allow people to live irresponsibly if they see fit. As for profiting off of it, if nothing else, by doing so they reduce the misery of those that would seek to buy those drugs whether supply was high enough to meet demand or not.
     
  19. TomYo689

    TomYo689 Emperor

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    There's no option for black market and gang violence stuff. In my opinion the monitoring and safety stuff is the least important
     

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