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civplayah

phantasm
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Why is it called Fall From Heaven? I heard somewhere something about original scenarios for giving it it's name, but that's still a little too vague. Anyone know?
(MagisterCultumm or Kael?)

And where is Erebus? In this galaxy? On another universe? And did the different races form just like different races formed on Earth: evolution? Where is the hell? Below the Underhome? (Which, if I'm correct, is due below the crust of Erebus?) Why did the dwarves not like Erebus and resort to the Underhome? And why did Cassiel abondon his angelness to become godless and live on Erebus? If there was a Compact, why did Basium and Hyborem come without a fight? If there's proof that the gods exist, why does Cassiel not want to worship one? And why do Gods kill the Grigori for their sport? Are all Octopus Overlord followers insane? What mental condition do they have? Skitsophrenia (if that's spelled right)? And how do they get it? Are the Doviello half-wolf? If the Mercurians are so war-crazy and powerful, how are they good? Why didn't they just form Patria again instead of breaking up? Was Patria human until the races evolved? Did The One create himself?
 
Because it centers around the age of rebirth, which comes after Bhall's Fall From heaven and the subsequent age of ice.

additionally, the conflicts are caused mostly because Some of the Gods have fallen.
 
Because it centers around the age of rebirth, which comes after Bhall's Fall From heaven and the subsequent age of ice.

additionally, the conflicts are caused mostly because Some of the Gods have fallen.

When gods die, they fall literally from heaven? Do they start a mortal life on Erebus?
Thanks for answering the first question.
 
No, none of the gods died (until Succellus and Mulcarn later on, during the age of ice.)

By Fall, i mean a moral fall, they becam corrupt and turned away from the one (following Agares, who, like Morgoth, sought to become more powerful than the one, and became resentful of the fact that only through the one can they create)

When a god Falls, (at elast in Bhall's case) she fell directly through Erebus into Agare's Vault, the lowest of the Planes of Hell.
 
No, none of the gods died (until Succellus and Mulcarn later on, during the age of ice.)

By Fall, i mean a moral fall, they becam corrupt and turned away from the one (following Agares, who, like Morgoth, sought to become more powerful than the one, and became resentful of the fact that only through the one can they create)

When a god Falls, (at elast in Bhall's case) she fell directly through Erebus into Agare's Vault, the lowest of the Planes of Hell.

So "fell" meaning died and lost?
 
The lore is much more a fantasy, "the gods made everything" not evolutionary. The various hells, vaults, and heavens are on separate planes of existance. Erubus is the combined and balanced natures of all the gods, who were themselves created by the One
 
I will take a shot at some of these and hope I do not get ninja'ed by someone better informed.

Why is it called Fall From Heaven?
As I understand it, it is called Fall From Heaven because the Angels (ie, Gods) were banished from Heaven by the One. Most of the events on Erebus are shaped by this fact.

And where is Erebus? In this galaxy? On another universe?
I am going by DnD lore here, so I could be wrong, but it is probably another Universe (or plane).

And did the different races form just like different races formed on Earth: evolution?
No, in Erebus there were Adam and Eve like figures. One of the Angels sacrificed his Angelhood to give mankind the divine spark. The Angels created a woman for him. The other races were created due to close contact with an Angel. The exception is the dwarves, which were supposedly crafted by a man and given life by an Angel. But this does not really make sense lore-wise.

Where is the hell?
Erebus is not round, but flat. Hell is below Erebus, though.

Why did the dwarves not like Erebus and resort to the Underhome?
They like digging holes and living underground. When the Age of Winter came, underground was the safest place to be.

And why did Cassiel abondon his angelness to become godless and live on Erebus?
Cassiel did not like the fact that the humans were dying and creation was being destroyed by the Angel's war. He resigned out of protest and to teach humankind to not rely on the Angels.

If there was a Compact, why did Basium and Hyborem come without a fight?
Angels can be summoned by mortals into creation, but lose a lot of their power and immortality.

why do Gods kill the Grigori for their sport?
I was not aware they did. :confused:

Are all Octopus Overlord followers insane? What mental condition do they have? Skitsophrenia (if that's spelled right)? And how do they get it?
The followers could be insane, but most are not. The priests (or slaves) that have direct contact with the will of the Overlords are driven insane by it, though.

Are the Doviello half-wolf?
No, they just emulate them.

If the Mercurians are so war-crazy and powerful, how are they good?
Good question.

Why didn't they just form Patria again instead of breaking up? Was Patria human until the races evolved?
Who? Patria was an advanced civilization that fell apart long ago for various reasons.

Did The One create himself?
The One has always existed.
 
...And why do Gods kill the Grigori for their sport?...

Actually, Cassiel refers to the entire human race being killed for godly amusement; the line itself is from a Shakespeare play which I can't recall right now. King Lear? Basically, the gist is that mortals are to gods what flies are to bad-tempered boys; each kills the other for amusement and without conscience.
 
Ooh quiz time. Let's see what I can regurgitate here...
Why is it called Fall From Heaven? I heard somewhere something about original scenarios for giving it it's name, but that's still a little too vague. Anyone know?(MagisterCultumm or Kael?)
All the angels fell from heaven when the One expelled them after finding out about Agares' crimes. The title probably refers more specifically to Agares and Bhall though.
And where is Erebus? In this galaxy? On another universe?
No idea. All we know is it's planar and separate from heaven and all the angels' spheres.
And did the different races form just like different races formed on Earth: evolution?
Humans were crafted by the One and the angles. Dwarves were statues given life by Kilmorph. Elves... dunno. Orcs are twisted followers of Bhall.
Where is the hell? Below the Underhome? (Which, if I'm correct, is due below the crust of Erebus?)
Perhaps. Hell spreads to Erebus during Armageddon, so there may be a physical link, but there doesn't need to be.
Why did the dwarves not like Erebus and resort to the Underhome?
They were treated poorly by Patrian merchants and fled.
And why did Cassiel abondon his angelness to become godless and live on Erebus?
He did so to protest the Compact, which he felt didn't do enough to free men from the wills of the angels.
If there was a Compact, why did Basium and Hyborem come without a fight?
They are not angels, and so (to the best of our understanding) not bound by the compact. Their angels take responsibility for their actions, or must abandon them (as Aeron did Odio). Also, they are brought into the world little by little by humankind.
If there's proof that the gods exist, why does Cassiel not want to worship one?
He disagrees with their subjugation of humankind.
And why do Gods kill the Grigori for their sport?
Huh?
Are all Octopus Overlord followers insane?
Very probably.
What mental condition do they have? Skitsophrenia (if that's spelled right)?
It would probably seem very much like schizophrenia. But who's to say they don't really hear voices?
And how do they get it?
Many people would love to know that.
Are the Doviello half-wolf?
Physically, no. Socially and mentally, half may not be enough.
If the Mercurians are so war-crazy and powerful, how are they good?
Because they fight against evil (which is evil because it fights against good).
Why didn't they just form Patria again instead of breaking up?
Patria became a corrupted and evil magocracy by the time Bhall fell, and Kylorin, who made it that way, repented.
Was Patria human until the races evolved?
Patria formed after other races evolved, such as the dwarfs and elves (including the Aifon).
Did The One create himself?
The Egyptian god Atem masturbated the world into existence. As to how the One pulled it off, so to speak, I don't know.
 
...Atem masturbated the world into existence. As to how the One pulled it off, so to speak, I don't know.

For those saying, "who's Atem," here. And thanks to you, I will never look at the One the same way again. :lol: I should assume that, being similar to the Judeo-Christian God, the One basically willed everything into being, and that nothing, not even time, existed before the One... something like that, anyways.
Why didn't they just form Patria again instead of breaking up?
That's what the Amurites are trying to do. And possibly the Kurioates. Others have their own ideas. A few hundred years of icy stasis under a god made manifest upon your world means you lose contact with others, and start to develop your own philosophies that might not be compatible with the rest of the world's...
 
Some answers to a few that havent already been answered.

If the Mercurians are so war-crazy and powerful, how are they good?

This depends on your definition of good. By some standards they are engaged in the most good activity possible (destroying the infernal). And in their view there is nothing else that comes close to the priority of that task. Temporary pain, the push of some mortal spans into the immortal, are minor compared to an eternal evil.

If they destroy a human city in their battles, it is like destroying an ant hill when you mow your lawn. If they kill a human army because it stands in their way then that is the price that must be paid, a compassionate plan only serves the infernal (the evil gods love the compact as it allows them to corrupt creation as they desire).

Put another way, imagine that the infernal are terrorists and people are their hostages. The Mercurians simply refuse to negotiate with the terrorists. The Mercurians also know that death isnt permanent for the people that die.

Why didn't they just form Patria again instead of breaking up?

A bloody rebellion started, which I lead
My empire became an arcane battleground
As the gods had warred now man did instead
Landscapes were lost, forests, mountains, towns
Untold numbers unto Arawns shores were bound
In the end the great empire of man was gone
From it only shattered countries would go on

As ages pass these countries war against
Each other, forgetting once they were as one
Or how their bitter squabbling commenced
With an ancient love betrayed their war begun
Loves remains can never love become
The same is true for kingdoms split apart
Warring nations shattered by my heart​

The civil war was huge. Sometimes empires recover, sometimes they dont. I suppose there are many reasons why it wasnt reformed. the Two biggest would be the length and brutality of the war. Secondly there was no single leader with the support to take over the entire empire. Kylorin was both disinterested in leadership, and had little reputation left after all the damage he had done.

Was Patria human until the races evolved?

All the nations that came form Patria are and were human. The Ljosalfar, Khazad and the Aifons were never a part of Patria.

Did The One create himself?

The One created an orb that controlled the flow of time. It bound everything into an ordered flow of what was, what is and what will be. Before the creation of the orb all possibilities and all events, were instantaneous, simotaneous and eternal. In a world without time before and after don't exist. There is only what is and what is not. And the One existed.
 
The One created an orb that controlled the flow of time. It bound everything into an ordered flow of what was, what is and what will be. Before the creation of the orb all possibilities and all events, were instantaneous, simotaneous and eternal. In a world without time before and after don't exist. There is only what is and what is not. And the One existed.

But if there was no before before the orb was created, and there was no after before the orb then the before that wasn't before because... it wasn't after... before there was or wasn't after... that means the after, which doesn't... exist... why... are my ears bleeding... [pissed]
 
But if there was no before before the orb was created, and there was no after before the orb then the before that wasn't before because... it wasn't after... before there was or wasn't after... that means the after, which doesn't... exist... why... are my ears bleeding... [pissed]

"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but *actually* from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff."
—Dr. Who, "Blink"
 
And where is Erebus? In this galaxy? On another universe?

I'd say another multiverse.

And did the different races form just like different races formed on Earth: evolution?

Yeah, but not through natural selection. Closeness to a god greatly effects how different peoples diverge.


Dagda proposed making Erebus of equal parts of all the elements and making man as a creature possessing equal parts of every element and also a divine spark, so that they would have a true form of free will, greater than that of the god's whose personalities are dominated by their own precept. Creating a new divine spark is something only The One could do, so they could only give mankind free will by having man be descendant of the gods. One god would need to give up his power in order to father the new race. Only Nemed, the God of Life, was willing to do this. He gave his precept to Arawn, God of Death. Apparently the gods together made Gabella as a mate who was his equal, but I don't think they really had this power. She clearly has a divine spark, as she is a very powerful sorceress. I think that the man Nemed and Gabella were formed from two halves of the God of Life. Gabella refused to submit to Nemed, and bore him no children. If we had been descended from both Nemed and Gabella we would be true immortals, in both spirit and body. The gods fashioned a new mate for Nemed out of the raw elements, but she was mortal and without a soul. Their children inherited her mortality of body and his immortality of soul. The first generations however were still extremely long lived.





The ancestors of the Elves lived with and were close to Sucellus in the Age of Dragons, and were changed into more graceful, longer living (than other races, not necessarily than their mutual ancestors) creatures. Aifons similarly were close to Danalin and gained the ability to breathe both air and water. The righteous crusaders of the Bannor in Age of Magic were very close to Bhall, so those who were not dragged into hell with her physically manifested her corruption and became bloodthirsty Orks.


I tend to think it would fit better for the Dwarves to be humans who were close to Kilmorph, but officially we are still to go by the story of Keldon Ki. He was an extremely skilled artists who was commissioned to carve a statue of an arrogant king in the Age of Magic (who would presumably be Kyorlin), but was imprisoned when his completed statue clearly looked as arrogant and corrupt as the real king was. He grew old in prison and very lonely, so he fashioned little statues to keep him company. When he was close to death Kilmorph appeared and offered him one wish. He turned down youth or rebirth, instead asking only for companionship in his last hours, so she brought the statues to life. These were the first dwarves, who were immortal. Each generation had a markedly shorter life than the last.



Where is the hell? Below the Underhome? (Which, if I'm correct, is due below the crust of Erebus?)

Hell would consist of 6 other planes (plus the connections between them, and possibly numerous other secret planes that only Ceridwen knows about) which could probably be considered seperate universes, but which are all connected. One generally heads down deeper as one goes to lower levels of hell, but I don't think that it would actually be able to go from plane to plain without going through specific portals.


Why did the dwarves not like Erebus and resort to the Underhome?

Humans drove them to isolationism. The Dwarves were once honest, hard working, and very trusting, but their dealings with humans made them distrust us greatly. Humans liked using magic to conjure illusions of good that they would trade for high quality dwarven products, thus dispoiling the dwarves of their wealth. When this didn't work, they would often overpower the dwarves and steal from them. The ancestors of the Khazad got fed up with this, and retreated completely into their tunnels. It is said that they didn't even notice the Age of Winter for at least a generation since they rarely went outside anyway. They have however now run low of resources and room, so they have been pretty much forced to explore the outside world again.


According to their creation myth, the Underhome would have been founded by the tunnels the first dwarves made to get out of the prison where they had lived with Keldon Ki in his last days, and never completely left it.

The ancestors of the Luchuirp however had left the underhome completely and forgotten how to dig. They were very urbanized surface dwellers who were unaccustomed to any work but skillfully crafting golems. The Luchuirp tribe itself had to be taught to dig again by Kilmorph herself to survive the Age of Ice.

During the Age of Ice, all races (apart from the Illians and Doveillo) withdrew to living in caves for protection from the cold.

And why did Cassiel abondon his angelness to become godless and live on Erebus?

While the Compact was Cassiel's idea, he despised its final draft and could not bring himself to accept it. He wanted to end the war for the sake of humanity, but all this did was turn humanity into pawns in a more subtle war, and established that gods had the right to own the souls of their followers and could do whatever they want with them. It did offer some protections to humanity, but was far from absolute. Demons could not directly hurt the innocent, but they could empower the corrupt to do for for them. The gods could not personally enter Creation, but they could send powerful angels to intervene, although in a limited capacity. Cernunnos spent all of the Age of Ice with the Ljosalfar, but he was there to guide them and not perform miracles. Technically there wouldn't be anything illegal about Sabathiel guiding the Bannor from within Erebus, but as the archangel of law he is bound to the strictest possible interpretation.

Cassiel stormed out of the meeting at the Seven Pines in disgust, as did Basium but for very different reasons. They both chose to fall (the right of an angel to fall was also established in the compact), loosing their god's ara and protection, becoming essentially mortals. I don't think they age and they are still quite strong, but they can be killed by the same sort of wounds that would kill a man.


If there was a Compact, why did Basium and Hyborem come without a fight?

Basium broke the compact before it was signed, and ignores it completely. Since he fell and is not being helped by his god (Arawn), it doesn't really matter. Hyborem is treading a very fine line over what is allowed. He hasn't broken the letter of the law, but has certainly violated the spirit. He and his demons are allowed to act in creation when invited by mortals. Thematically, they probably shouldn't be able to directly invade the lands of the good, or at least should be far weaker there. Agares has helped Hyborem, but is very careful not to do enough to attract suspicion of the other gods. He would not risk sending Hyborem back a third time, which is why Hyborem doesn't regain immortality.

If there's proof that the gods exist, why does Cassiel not want to worship one?


Cassiel does not believe that The One wants worship. He associates worship (including both the desire to worship and to be worshiped) as part of Agares' taint, and refuses to believe that The One would have traits anything like this. (I do think that worship is part of the sphere of hope, but he neglects that the sphere itself was originally good and that The One accepted worship for ages before Agares' fall.) He thinks that the fact that The One withdrew from Creation means that he does not want humanity to know about him, because it could be deleterious towards their enlightenment. The fact that none of the good gods (even Sirona or Lugus) have ever told their followers about The One may indicate that this is right. The One never told them to tell us about him (he also never ordered them to fight evil), only to protect us and guide us towards enlightenment. Cassiel thinks that the gods/angels should follow his example and leave mankind completely alone.


it is worth noting that Cassiel was not created until after The One closed the true heaven off from the gods, so his knowledge of The One is entirely second hand and possibly wrong.




And why do Gods kill the Grigori for their sport?
???
Who ever said they do?

Kael Cassiel (why have I been witting the wrong names so much in the past month or two?) does think that the gods have horribly abused humanity in general, but not specifically him people. Generally good and evil are too busy fighting each other to mess with them.

Are all Octopus Overlord followers insane?

Isn't everyone really? :p

Most of those who follow the Overlords are probably no less sane than anyone else. Well, actually the "followers" probably are rather insane, as those who know anything about the Overlords know that they never agree with each other on anything and that following one overlord would just annoy another. Anyone who actually seeks the will of the overlords will go mad. However, in their madness they are quite useful, as their nightmares do show the future. The more powerful of those who believe in the Overlords seek to exploit them and the madness of lesser men.


What mental condition do they have? Skitsophrenia (if that's spelled right)? And how do they get it?

I don't know, it probably depends on the individual. Lying face down in the water until you receive a vision and hear the whispers of these abominations of the deep are probably involved in driving them to their various forms of mental illness.

Are the Doviello half-wolf?

NO. They are quite human, but inhumane. Charadon patterned his society on the wolf pack and they venerate the beast, but they are completely human. They do claim descent from an orphan raised by wolves though, not unlike the story of Romulus and Remus.

If the Mercurians are so war-crazy and powerful, how are they good?


Good in FfH means anti-evil. The Mercurians are the most devoted of all to fighting demons.

Why didn't they just form Patria again instead of breaking up? Was Patria human until the races evolved?

Patria was the first empire of man, which united every human people under one King, Kyorlin. (The ancestors of the Lanun and probably a few other peoples though were probably more like vassals of the empire than subjects though.) The Elves and Aifons were seperate societies, who at first were friendly with Patria but never under its control. The Dwarves weren't created until the empire started becoming corrupt (if their story of their origins is true). After Kyorlin's wife Eve cheated on him with another man, he tried to commit suicide. Ceridwen stopped him and promised him eternal youth (and thus practical immortality) and made Eve be eternally reincarnated each generation, so they could be together without her flesh being tainted by another man. She also taught Kyorlin to use magic, and made the already powerful kind the strongest sorcerer in history. In exchange, he had to worship Ceridwen. Kyorlin became an extremely corrupt despot, and taught his students to be just as wicked. The people of Patria suffered horribly at the hands of these archmages, who were all evil at this time (well, I think at least a couple were pretty neutral, or else just changed latter on). The reborn Eve found Kyorlin repulsive (I think he probably raped her in at least one reincarnation), and he eventually did too. He eventually repented and led a rebellion against...himself. Well, basically he tried to change the laws back to how they used to be and make his nation just again, but his students would not stand for that. They (I'm thinking under the leadership of Perpentach) kept control of the army and all the real power, but he led a small group of rebels, which eventually grew into a revolution. There was a massive civil war which eventually stabilized into several different nations, which then were crushed by the Age of Ice.


Did The One create himself?

We don't know a lot about The One, but creating oneself doesn't make a lot of sense. Presumably, he has always been and always will be. Time did not exist until he created the orb of temperance.



Why did I spend time witting this instead of my papers and lab reports?
 
*sits down with a hot cup of tea and reads Magister's post*

It is the little details that make a story... Thanks for not doing your papers.

Also, if a source book for DnD is not made for this world, I am going to go crazy. I keep saying that. I should probably just put it in my signature.
 
But if there was no before before the orb was created, and there was no after before the orb then the before that wasn't before because... it wasn't after... before there was or wasn't after... that means the after, which doesn't... exist... why... are my ears bleeding... [pissed]

The science term for it is a singularity, the point at which the universe has an infinite density and zero volume. At this point time itself has no meaning (since time isnt a constant but effected by the forces of creation).

Under the theory of General Relativity our own universe started as a singularity. Everything was one until the moment of the big bang when all the building blocks of everything that would come after came into existence and all forces in the universe, including time, began.

Just change the above line from "everything was one", to "everything was the One", and you pretty much have it. The only difference being that we imply some sentience in that thing that was before creation, and I doubt Stephen Hawking would.
 
Kylorin was both disinterested in leadership, and had little reputation left after all the damage he had done.
And probably had never bothered to train or anoint a successor.

What mental condition do they have? Skitsophrenia (if that's spelled right)? And how do they get it?
Demon possession. (If not as permanent residence, at least a summer home.)
 
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