The New Republicans

Bozo Erectus

Master Baker
Joined
Jan 22, 2003
Messages
22,389
Bush Jr. is in the process of completing the work begun by Reagan to completely reinvent the GOP. It wasnt too long ago that the Republican party was an isolationist, fiscally conservative outfit, firmly commited to balanced budgets and closely associated and dominated by the religous right. The religious right is still there, along with the fiscal conservatives and the isolationists, all enjoying the ride. But some of them must be asking "Where are we going?" People talk alot about the New Democratic party Clinton brought about. Unlike the revolutionary change in the Republican party begun by Reagan and being completed by Bush, Clintons changes were cosmetic only. No longer isolationist, the Republican party is now aggressively internationalist. No longer fiscally conservative, it no longer cares about balanced budgets and lower federal spending. Instead now its for cutting taxes and INCREASING spending, and casually dismisses concerns about budget defecits. These days, you dont hear Republicans on the national level talking about abortion, but not long ago, you couldnt put a microphone in front of one without hearing something about abortion. The rank and file still seem to care about this issue, but the leadership is much more mute on the topic than before. Its the Republican party in name only, and theres not much thats conservative about it anymore.
 
Originally posted by Dumb pothead
Its the Republican party in name only, and theres not much thats conservative about it anymore.
That's poltics for ya. I agree that the Republican party isn't conservative anymore but that because the voters are not either . People don't seem to care about morals anymore especially in poltics ,it's all about the economy. We let our wallets do the voting and now we are paying for it. Even conservatives are more materialistic than we like to believeand with all the jobs losses I don't see this changing in 2004 either.
 
Originally posted by Colonel Kraken
Amen to that!

Dang, Pothead, what's happening? You and I seem to slowly be moving closer and closer to agreement on issues. :lol:

--CK
don't let him deceive you with his user name;) . ( Maybe before long He will even be a christian )
 
The Republican Party's dependence on the Religious Right for votes means that the party will stay strongly anti-abortion and socially conservative/reactionary. The religious right stayed home on election day 2000 and Bush almost lost. He will never make that same mistake again.
 
Current-account deficits are not a sign of a fiscal policy change in the Gopper leadership. It merely shows that the current Gopper leadership is incompetent. There are still plenty of fiscal conservatives around. Too bad their party has been hijacked by the likes of Bush II.

And of course the GOP remains solidly on the Bible Belt's side of most domestic policy issues. So these "New Republicans"... nah ;)
 
Yes, and sadly it's true for the most part. Unfortunately, most conservatives and religious types will be voting for Bush this year-just to spite the Democratic Party. Personally, I'm voting independent... though John Kerry is starting to look awefully nice. :p
 
Originally posted by Colonel Kraken
Dang, Pothead, what's happening? You and I seem to slowly be moving closer and closer to agreement on issues. :lol:

--CK
I hope nobody walks up to you one day and says 'Hey, you sound like a pothead!' ;)
Originally posted by Smidlee
don't let him deceive you with his user name;) . ( Maybe before long He will even be a christian )
Thanks smidlee, but I doubt the last part. Me, republican AND born again? Its more likely that Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld will quit politics and open a delicatessan in Brooklyn:lol:

Well, this thread dropped farther and faster than Deans jaw the day Saddam got captured. Knowing my dittohead friends like I do, I suspect my analysis is right on the money. The slightest disagreement and theyd be all over me like white on rice.
@SeleucusNicator, I think the Republicans are taking the religious right for granted these days. After all, where else can they go, the Green party? Now that the Republicans have terrorism as a rallying cry (as a replacement for the threat of communism), they dont need the religious right.
@Pontiuth: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss? I dont think so. The Republican party is going through a major transformation. Not kinder and gentler, not any less opposed to democratic policies, just different than before. I think the coming years will see the true conservatives and the hardcore religious right becoming more and more frustrated with the direction of the Republican party, but like I said above, where can they go instead? A new party? Maybe, but the track record of 3rd parties isnt all that great.
@Hundegesicht, Kerry, really? He's got loser stank all over him. If you want to throw away a vote, might as well vote for the Green party.
 
I could use a new delicatessan....I'll give you my Brooklyn address! Make me some corned beef & salami!

I'm not too sure I can buy your idea completely. It still seems as if they pander too much to their base. Even if what you say is true, these people don't have anywhere else to go, unless you count Zell Miller as an option.
 
Originally posted by Dumb pothead


.
@Pontiuth: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss? I dont think so. The Republican party is going through a major transformation. Not kinder and gentler, not any less opposed to democratic policies, just different than before. I think the coming years will see the true conservatives and the hardcore religious right becoming more and more frustrated with the direction of the Republican party, but like I said above, where can they go instead? A new party? Maybe, but the track record of 3rd parties isnt all that great.

Third parties can split the tickets and pull parties. Look at what happened when the first time the Republicans turned away from the fiscal conservatives (Perot in 1992).
 
Originally posted by Dumb pothead

@SeleucusNicator, I think the Republicans are taking the religious right for granted these days. After all, where else can they go, the Green party? Now that the Republicans have terrorism as a rallying cry (as a replacement for the threat of communism), they dont need the religious right.

No, the Religious Right can and will stay home. They did in 2000, when they were unsure about Bush. What happened that year? Bush almost lost and the Democrats gained 5 Senate seats.

They've been voting in every election since then, and look at how different the results have been, especially in the South. The Religious Right constitutes some 30 million votes. The Republicans continue to court them -- look at Bush's social policy on abortion, contraception, etc., look at all of his public praying, his federal court apointees.
 
Pothead: No, but considering the alternatives...

In actuality, I'm not sure who I'm going to vote for yet. (This will be my first time) I'm a conservative, but Bush seems to be about as intelligent as your average rock about fiscal policy and, well, everything else. Essentially I want a candidate with conservative policies-especially fiscally, foreign and ethical. (This whole "pre-emptive" bull Bush is spewing about Iraq shouldn't be part of our foreign policy)

So in other words the dream Candidate for me (and most of the Republicans I know) would be a religious conservative who doesn't go around declaring war on other nations without good reason, cares about the economy and your average middle class man and his job, cares about education, and won't stab you in the back the moment you elect him into office. Any suggestions?
(Come to think of it, if the democratic party would drop political correctness, pro-abortion and extreme anti-religious[1] sentiments I might vote for them)

[1]I do agree with seperation of church and state, but not to the extremes it's being taken. (from "no offical prayer in government schools" to "you can't even talk to your friends about religion in government schools")
 
This my friends is why I am a Libertarian now. The Republicans claimed to be the party small government but they never were, just look at the administration of Lincoln, Theodore Roosevelt, and Richard Nixon.

In conclusion I will go play video games for several hours and complain about Neo-Conservates.
 
They've gone from a good party(1860's) to a party whose main purpose is to serve the Militarists/Industrialists/Rich. they only appease the religous zealots 'cause otherwise they'd lose 20% of thier membership to some new, Christian party. They also hide their real motives with Nationalism and blaming smaller groups for the bad things.
 
they don't care about the country. they got is into $400 billion dollars worth of debt and crippled my state with the energy "crisis." not to mention poorly handling the Afgan War and attacking a nation that was not a threat to any other country.
 
Originally posted by Tragdor
This my friends is why I am a Libertarian now. The Republicans claimed to be the party small government but they never were, just look at the administration of Lincoln, Theodore Roosevelt, and Richard Nixon.

Hate to say it, but great way to waste your vote!
 
Originally posted by Hundegesicht
So in other words the dream Candidate for me (and most of the Republicans I know) would be a religious conservative who doesn't go around declaring war on other nations without good reason, cares about the economy and your average middle class man and his job, cares about education, and won't stab you in the back the moment you elect him into office. Any suggestions?
Sounds like the candidate for you is none other than Pat Buchanon! Even Buchanon isnt quixotic enough to go up against Bushzilla. I like Buchanon, he's honest and speaks his mind. Too bad he's insane.

@sims: Its Eisenhowers miltary industrial complex, they rule the world now. Crony Imperialism, theyve gone beyond mere Crony Capitalism. Bush is just the Ken doll its playing the game with this week.
 
There is no reason to suspect the Dems aren't in on the imperialism too (depending on how you gauge "imperialism"). FDR and Truman were quite instramentual in bringing about the massive world wide troop deployment. The Kosovo bombing, Bay of Pigs, Vietnam and Korea were started by Democrats. Not too mention the strange "allotments" of entire countries granted to the Soviet Union during the FDR presidency.

About blaming: The Dems conversly blame the majority for many problems.

The Southern (both Eastern and Western) region of the U.S. will become more important in the future to politics due to increased growth rates relative other sections of the U.S. This is both partly due to immigration and higher natural increase. A majority of the new immigrants are opposed to abortion therefore the odds may increase of it being banned in the future (a good thing).
 
The South has already been holding US politics hostage for over a century. It's one of the quirks of our history. For all practical purposes, the South as a whole is totally ignorable except for its population, ie the fact that it votes. The South consistently ranks near the bottom of every lineup: education, median household income, crime, health, and so on.

In 2002, of the 20 metropolitans with the top annual murder rates, only 4 were not in the South. New York state has a violent reputation, but on the rankings for murders with firearms, it comes fifth - after Louisiana, Mississipi, Kansas, and South Carolina. Going down the list showing the percentage of population imprisoned, you read: LA, MS, TX, OK, AL, GA, SC, MO, etc, etc. Teachers in Texas are paid 7% better than the average population; teachers in California are paid 29% better, and teachers in Pennsylvania and Rhode Island are paid nearly one and a half times as much as the average. Forty-seven percent of Massachussets fourth-graders are proficient at reading; in Alabama the figure is 22 percent, in Mississipi 16 percent. Morgan Quitno, from which all these statistics are taken, rates Minnesota as the most livable state based on forty three factors including home ownership rate, high school graduation, infant mortality and teen pregnancy, etc. The top five were Minnesota, Iowa, New Hampshire, Nebraska and Virginia; the bottom five were Mississipi, Louisiana, Tennessee, Alabama, and West Virginia. When ranking health [infant mortality rates, the percent of population not covered by health insurance, per capita expenditures for health care, percent of population lacking access to primary medical care, childhood immunization rates] the top five included Vermont, New Hampshire, Nebraska, Iowa, and Minnesota. The bottom five were the usual suspects - the only state not in the Deep South being New Mexico. The study showed that Mississippi faces the nation’s highest infant mortality rate, the highest teen birth rate and the highest percentage of population lacking access to primary care physicians. For overall state crime, Vermont came in first place as "safest" state followed by the Dakotas, Maine, and New Hampshire; Louisiana came last followed by Arizona, Florida, Maryland, and Nevada. Finally, in overall education, Massachussets came first [we had a thread on it, iirc] followed by Vermont, Connecticut, Montana, and New Jersey. In the bottom five - New Mexico, Nevada, Mississipi, Louisiana, Alabama.

I'm aware that these statistics show a big split between the "Deep South" and the moderate south, which scored about average on most of these studies. Some states - Kentucky, Arkansas, Virginia, and North Carolina - scored better than some coastal states, in fact.

I am also particularly chagrined by how low California scored on some of these studies [we pay teachers nearly as badly as Alabama!] which I attribute to poor leadership because of the uncontestability of our state in the past few decades... but that's a side note.

Unfortunately, the generalization that can be drawn from this is that the Deep South and to some extent the Middle South is an economic backwater, and that the true powerhouses of this nation are the coasts and the northernmost Midwest.

Thus, my overall response to Free Enterprise is that the South is already a hundred times "more important in politics" than it should be. I'd like to know: exactly what is the South contributing to our nation? Besides leadership - because unless you're from the South, you're unelectable?
 
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