Currently herbalists buff plantations though. I think either it should be buildable everywhere, or the plantation buff should be a different building
The next beta- changelog
- Thread starter Gazebo
- Start date
Well, the plantation buff is more for plantations on forests/jungles, but I see your point.
G
Alright, took some time earlier to hash out a version 2 for Autocracy:
@Gazebo do you have a date planned for the release ? I just started a new game and was wondering if it was worth continuing or i'm better off waiting
Code isn't even written yet, so do what you want.
G
That extra hammer is really important for a few of the open terrain plantations like wine or perfume, who are on the weaker side of luxuries.
Txurce
Deity
- Iron Fist (replaces Autarky) - Vassals can no longer rebel or be revoked. Yields from Vassal states increased by 50%, and +50% Worker Improvement rate.
- Lightning Warfare - +3 Movement for Great Generals. Gun units gain +15% attack and ignore enemy ZOC. Armor units gain +15% attack and +1 Movement.
- New World Order - +100% construction speed for Constab/Police Station
- Third Alternative - dropped capital yields, now also Reduces Unit Gold Maintenance costs by 25%.
- Blue-Water Doctrine (was Nationalism). +5 Production/Science from Harbors/Seaports/Lighthouses, +50% Production of Naval Units. +50% to Yields from Trade Routes.
- Cult of Personality (edited) - highest warscore now affects all Civilizations (50% of highest warscore counts as tourism mod with all civs)
- Futurism (added) - +1 Culture from Great Works
- Total War (new) - +25% Production when building land units. +34% Warscore (from city capture, plunder, etc.).
- United Front - Unit gifts to City-States generate 40 Influence. Influence with allied City-States does not decay while at war.
- Power Projection (was Gunboat Diplomacy) - 50% easier to bully City-States. Can bully allied City-States, and doing so decreases the influence of all other Civs with that CS by 25%.
Overall it would keep me militarily viable in the late game while going for a DV... but the only policy that actually contributes to a DV is United Front. Would this be Tier 1? And even if so, is that enough?
]Overall it would keep me militarily viable in the late game while going for a DV... but the only policy that actually contributes to a DV is United Front. Would this be Tier 1? And even if so, is that enough?[/QUOTE]
Quoting you, quoting me? Are you in my mind?
G
ashendashin
King
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2016
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- 989
How about bumping that closer to 50%? Can't say I'd like losing my own influence for that small effect.
Edit:
Hell I didn't even consider how useful it might be to bully late game allies. Goes to show how long it's been since I got so far in the game. I suppose 25% would be sensible given how easy bullying would be and the constant yield potential.
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I was thinking that I'd move United Front to Tier 3, and Power Projection to Tier 2. Could add the 'bullying potential = free influence' gunboat thing to united front (and reduce the CS unit influence bump) to compensate.
G
Nerf to lighting warfare is 1 less reason to pick autocracy. Problem is that lightning warfare was the only reason to pick autocracy. Whenever I pick that ideology, I feel like I am paying massive opportunity cost just to buff my tanks and turn useless rifleman and infantry units into something potentially good. With those nerfs I feel like there is no reason to pick autocracy now. Order and freedom outperform it in every possible way. Even domination.
Autarky: still dumpster. I actually prefer the old one.
Futurism: dumpster. It that stage of the game +1 culture form great works is nothing. Tourism and autocracy don't fit together IMO.
Gunboat Diplomacy.. Dumpster. It comes to late. tier 3 policy (if im not mistaken) when compared to the power of ther tier 3 policies, massive power difference is obvious. +6 influence is nothing when i need 500+ to ally with a city state
Third Alternative: Maybe useful in some maps, otherwise dumpster.
Progress opener is actually a nerf to early game which is something progress doesn't really need. I would just give back 30 science to capitol and keep the buff to other cities.
Denmark change fits thematically. feels like a big nerf.
Autarky: still dumpster. I actually prefer the old one.
Futurism: dumpster. It that stage of the game +1 culture form great works is nothing. Tourism and autocracy don't fit together IMO.
Gunboat Diplomacy.. Dumpster. It comes to late. tier 3 policy (if im not mistaken) when compared to the power of ther tier 3 policies, massive power difference is obvious. +6 influence is nothing when i need 500+ to ally with a city state
Third Alternative: Maybe useful in some maps, otherwise dumpster.
Progress opener is actually a nerf to early game which is something progress doesn't really need. I would just give back 30 science to capitol and keep the buff to other cities.
Denmark change fits thematically. feels like a big nerf.
Darth Andrew
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2007
- Messages
- 31
Will you fix the movement bug (forcing player to click for every moved hex) that came in the last patch?
Enrico Swagolo
Deity
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2013
- Messages
- 2,387
Iron Fist looks very bad. Yields from vassals never matter to me, and if you want to win the game, the vassal's potential uprising shouldn't influence anything. The only thing that matters is +50% worker improvement rate, and that's hardly worth a tenet so late in the game. Unique, but not functional from what I see - easy F. New United Front is also meh. Better than the current one, though, but the influence decay shouldn't matter much at this point so it needs a third part to sweeten the deal I'd say. Like the military cs unit gift rate, or unit production which could be taken away from Total War to be replaced with handy Pillaging bonuses which the tree lacks and which would be at home with a policy called Total War and which would actually encourage doing something else. That's why I shill for the +HP and yields for pillaging tiles on that one because that'd be cool, unique and useful. Futurism's +1 Culture might just as well not exist, it's nothing at that point (especially for a warmongerer), it's just more text imho. I don't get why Autocracy constantly gets small, tall-focused yield buffs that even tall wouldn't take.
I am one of those who never pick third alternative and the change wouldn't make me pick it either (maybe -33%), but those who like it might be tempted to take that one more frequiently. LW is still weak. Martial Spirit obsoletes it in it's current form - sure, you gain +1
for tanks and ZoC for gunpowder, but tons of units get nothing. MS also grants the bonuses to other units, and it's not an overpowered one by any means. Nobody would pick Autocracy just to get Lightning Warfare, not even if it's CS never went away.Power Projection seems bad too. So I sacrifice 40-60 influence to reduce enemy's influence by 25%. Sure, if it's one of those CSs which they've been sending diplomats since classical, that's easy -250 for them. With that being a T3, I doubt you're taking those ones over before the game finishes with his diplomatic victory if you can't just declare war on him when he has such a lead, which is implied by you not just smashing his face in to remove his influence. Basically it's pretty weak unless certain situations happen, so in other words it's more like a T1. Except if you make something this situational, the AI might take it not knowing it won't get much out of it. I doubt it'd ever understand how to use it properly, it's worse than just gaining Influence from tributing as it's more complex and dependent on what your opponents have. Writing this I assumed enemy influence reduction doesn't only work when allied unlike what the text implies and it actually works for all by the way
Also what about wonders? Prora/Hall of Honour are still the worst of the worst, with Freedom's being best at wide and Order's being in the middle. Any changes to these? Hall of Honour could be decent if it allowed you to build units with Faith in the city and lowered the Faith costs there by 25% (so Zealotry-goers don't complain), Prora needs more.
Not bad I actually like Iron Fist like this. Now if only the AI who prefers to conquer every city on Deity instead of trying for capitulation on everyone. That would be extremely nice.
Overall over my testing my modmods as well, I have never seen an AI that snowballs in vassals especially you would think it would exist over 22 civilizations. It's either me that always wants a capitulation so I always get them to capitulate or an occasional AI that just wants 0-1 vassal at most instead of a civilization with a vast amount of colonial power represented by his or her amounts of vassals.
ashendashin
King
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- Sep 19, 2016
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- 989
I rarely pick up a vassal. A civ is almost always unwilling to capitulate until I take their capital, and most of the time that requires crippling them to the point of no return. Only time it's really worth focusing on is later in the game when I can more easily rush capitals and invest into my new friend enough to have them hop back on their feet. Even with tech trading it comes too late for most potential vassals. Doesn't help that some of them hate me so much that they're unwilling to accept a DoF along with the wagons bursting with gold I prepared for them.
Txurce
Deity
In my games there are almost always one or two vassals, which seems appropriate. I force capitulation without the capital hit by 1) breaking their army, and 2) seriously threatening the capital.
ashendashin
King
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- 989
Well, I play with 22 civs (43 for a time), and the vassal ratio is definitely off. Most civs get conquered in full or simply allowed to be sliced up by everyone to avoid future headaches (though I haven't done Enginseer's thing with making vassalage an earlier option). You'd be surprised how much outside forces can influence your ability to break the AI in a timely manner. The AI doesn't really consider long term survival very well when they're losing in big games.
The AI not picking up many vassals as Enginseer observed makes sense to me because my own plays don't get many of them. At least not until the very end.
Edit:
If this got improved for the player and the AI just plain avoids allowing capitulation when it's clearly a good idea, then I'm sorry for throwing out my last experiences which are probably a couple months old by now. I've gotta play properly on the next update for sure...I keep trying new crap that I give up on whenever I start up Deity. Or Germany with good ol' Progress which was almost always a death sentence if I didn't have tons of production or a couple useful CSs.
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I mean, you admit on the front end that the yields don't matter to you - that seems unfair to the tenet.
The goal here is to make a tenet that is useful if you are playing for lots of vassals. That said, I'm going to modify if to increase CS yields as well - makes it a hybrid conquest/diplo tenet.I haven't messed with them. Open to ideas.
G
Enrico Swagolo
Deity
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- Jun 10, 2013
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- 2,387
I mean, you admit on the front end that the yields don't matter to you - that seems unfair to the tenet.
Actually I like yields and the more the better. It's not the case with vassals though because benefit from them yield-wise isn't really that big, especially once you get really big. 50% more is close to nothing. Pretty much only absolutely obliterated civs can be vassalised and their input has no real value in the large scale of your Autocratic, 30-50 city empire because I assume you have at least as many on std map if you've managed to make lots of vassals. It's a drop in the ocean that has no impact whatsoever, I've had three vassals in one game and never noticed a noticeable change when taking any of them. 50% more can just as well not exist, it's too late for pennies to be a major selling point of a policy. For me they only matter for potential votes in world congress as you trade or demand so they vote your way. More CS yields idea would be sweet, maybe, but in Freedom. For Autarky it's as always bonuses that will only matter for tall players on a tree which forces and expects you to go wide which is why it can't work unless it becomes ludicrous.
I'll explain further. That after picking the Iron Fist Vatican City suddenly gives you 10 Faith more doesn't matter at all when you have 50 cities. It's 0.2 per city, that's nothing and even the worst ancient era policies'd laugh that sort of thing out of the room. I was even being generous because I don't think Faith CS ever give 20 per turn anyway. Same problem with Cultural, Militaristic, etc. If you made the +50% also impact Scrivener/Chancery/Wire Service/etc yields for every CS thing (with 0.5 being existent and stacking, so 2 x 1 x 0.5 = 1, because I know how unfavourably the game rounds values), that'd matter more for Autocracy. It'd likely be a C/C- on a normal map, but not an easy F. As it is, I can't see myself picking that.
Well, I did post some in the Autocracy thread. Prora and SoL could have their benefits switched which'd be the simplest, but that'd leave Freedom-goers unhappy with a bad wonder. Maybe
Prora - happiness effects stay. Prora gains +1 of all yields for every city you control. - still weaker than SoL (that is giving you at least 5-8 production per city, way more in capital and best cities), but it'd be decent at turning one city really good. Or some other solution, like also add +yields on top of happiness for every 2 policies.
Hall of Honour - same as now I guess, but also -25% Faith cost purchase in the city. Can purchase all kinds of military with Faith in the city. OR replace Faith with some other yield that's not outdated OR add some way to spend and gain Faith in Autocracy.
