The next Roman flavor request-Legonarii Fulminata-bringing Rome into the age of Guns

[Xen]

well, this is pretty self explainitory- Thorgrimm was intrigued by my post of my muesing of a Roman gunmen, and he was kind enough to dig up these pictures- so while my idea, the people really a great deal of thanks on the conceptual stage to him too thanks Thorgrimm

now then, looking at the pics, the position, at least in my opinion, being no great expert on guns, looks like the best replacement for the current musketman/arquebus... though it looks like a cool replacement for the rifleman as well...

 

[Thorgrimm]

@Xen here is another pic.

Cheers Thorgrimm

 

[Xen]

cool! just how many pics do you have (and are they from the web, or a book?)

 

[Xen]

as a note... perhaps the veiwers of this thread wouldnt mind leaving there opinion on the unit...

 

[Thorgrimm]

Here is the Tormentum (Roman Cannon) it got chopped a little but not by much.

BTW Xen the proper Latin name is Legio,

I had seen somewhere on this board the placement of Roman fleets listed and they were good but not thorough. Not trying to threadjack just thought i would give some info of the period you might need in the future. Circa 100 ad

Name of fleet Base of ops numbers of ships
Classis Misenensis Italia- The Tyrrhenian sea 40 Triremes,8 Quadriremes,2 Quinquiremes

Classis Ravennas Italia- The Adriatic 26 Triremes,2 Quadriremes,1 Quinquireme

Classis Syriaca Syria- Eastern Med & Aegean 12Liburniae,2Triremes

Classis Alexandrina Aegyptus- The N. African C. and Nile 30 Liburniae

Classis Pontica Cappadocia- The Black Sea 15 Liburniae 6 Triremes

Classis Pannonica Pannonia Inferior- W. Danube 15 Liburniae

Classis Germanica Colonia Agrippna- Rhine and N. Sea 24 Liburniae, 2 Triremes

Classis Britannica Britannia- E. Channel & I. Sea 18 Triremes, 2 Quadriremes

Classis Moesia Moesia Inferior- E. Danube 15 Liburniae

 

[spincrus]

I think it would be a GREAT idea. The pictures are great, too, but they look more like the Roman Legionaries have just gotten a slight upgrade.

Therefore;

1. Since they'd be units from the gunpowder era, I'd say the shields are unnecessary.

2. The bronze armor could remain the same shapewise, but would be better to have it in iron.

3. The helmet MUST stay, it's what makes it unique.

4. Can have similar pants to that of the musketmen.

Then we'd have a "Roman infantry meets gunpowder" sort of unit; more realistic, but yet again, has the features necessary for a legionary.

 

[Thorgrimm]

The Armor of the Imperial era was iron not Bronze. The Lorica Segmenta were iron bands laced together. The shield has to remain because as an early gunpowder unit the reload rate is long. And when you Have barbarians rushing you you still have the Gladius (short sword) And Scutum (shield) to rely on in hand to hand.


They are from a book.

 

[spincrus]

Oh, also, just like the Prussian infantrymen are portrayed with their unique Prussian helmets, future "riflemen" replacements for the Romans could still keep the same Roman helmets.

Because, you know, over time, they'd slowly loose all other armor, but always keep the helm...

I don't know, maybe the head of the legionary (or the ancient cavalry that comes with conquests) can be "copy pasted" onto the rifleman?

But for a "musketmen" sort of replacement, it'd be better to make a totally new unit.

 

[Xen]

Originally posted by Thorgrimm
Here is the Tormentum (Roman Cannon) it got chopped a little but not by much.

BTW Xen the proper Latin name is Legio,

I know, but in the game the name is singular as to one trooper (even though it shows an officer)

 

[Xen]

Originally posted by SpincruS
Oh, also, just like the Prussian infantrymen are portrayed with their unique Prussian helmets, future "riflemen" replacements for the Romans could still keep the same Roman helmets.

Because, you know, over time, they'd slowly loose all other armor, but always keep the helm...

I don't know, maybe the head of the legionary (or the ancient cavalry that comes with conquests) can be "copy pasted" onto the rifleman?

But for a "musketmen" sort of replacement, it'd be better to make a totally new unit.

thats no garuntee you know- we dont know how war might have been affected if Rome had developed gunpowder- but i have this crazy feeling that swoards, andf body armou would have stayed as part of a legionaries equipment no matter what the age, or the standard of weaponary

 

[Thorgrimm]

You are correct it is singular

 

[spincrus]

Originally posted by Xen
but i have this crazy feeling that swoards, andf body armou would have stayed as part of a legionaries equipment no matter what the age, or the standard of weaponary

Yeah I agree, but the shield would've gone already, I'd say.

I don't think too, that the Romans would replace their swords with rapiers

Body armor would stay until industrial ages (can't really tell if there would be an industrial age if the Romans survived for so long), but with the old flintcock rifles going obsolete, they'd definitely remove the armor.

 

[Thorgrimm]

I agree Xen the Romans were hot on tradition i think they would keep the armor for tradition if nothing else. Oh the name of the Rifle is the Pilum as it took the place of the throwing spear, for shock.

 

[Xen]

yep- if the Romans were anything, they were dressed to impress, and nothing says "I'm master of the known world" better then a nice shiny suit of armour

asd for raipiers- they evolved because of dueling, witch by all acounts is somthing the Romans werent big on doing- besides, a legioanry with a Galdius is ten fold more effective then a knight with a rapier any day, in any conditions, any where

 

[Ozymandias]

The shield seems of course unnecessary for the gunpowder age -- UNLESS it's integral to the stand for a musketeer's musket ...

-- Let's face it, ultimately infantry won't carry something unless it's useful!

Insofar as the ongoing Glory Of Rome goes, I agree that the classic helm could "evolve" into something quasi-ceremonial yet functional through the equivalent of WW1 (as SpincruS says, the equivalent of Prussian spiked helmets). Slightly less armor on the cheeks and back of the head (consider firing from a prone position) yet, conversely, perhaps even MORE facial armor for the earliest cannoniers due to the risk of gun explosions etc.

-Oz

 

[Xen]

Originally posted by ozymandias
The shield seems of course unnecessary for the gunpowder age -- UNLESS it's integral to the stand for a musketeer's musket ...

-- Let's face it, ultimately infantry won't carry something unless it's useful!

Insofar as the ongoing Glory Of Rome goes, I agree that the classic helm could "evolve" into something quasi-ceremonial yet functional through the equivalent of WW1 (as SpincruS says, the equivalent of Prussian spiked helmets). Slightly less armor on the cheeks and back of the head (consider firing from a prone position) yet, conversely, perhaps even MORE facial armor for the earliest cannoniers due to the risk of gun explosions etc.

-Oz

remember, these troops are the equivelent to the civ3 "musketman" who in reality is an early type of gunman- yes the stand is nessceisary, even more so when you concedier that your opponents NOT using guns, and are graging head long at you with swoards, and other such implents- swoardfs and sheaild are still very vuch needed in such a case, as demstrated that even modern guns double as short spears due to bayonets

as for armour- I doubt the helm whould have changed much,if at all, for any position, after all, you dont see face plates on the real life early cannoniers do you?

as for body armour- I see no reason why the Romans would have taken it off

 

[spincrus]

I really like ozymandias' idea of integrating the shield onto the stand of the gun.

That would make them unique; they'd have shields ON their stands, or actually use an evolved sort of shield AS a stand

 

[Xen]

look at the picture- the sheild IS functioing as the stand- hence the cut out on the top of them, and why in the first pic the guns sink into them

 

[aaminion00]

I just saw this, and while I too want a Roman musketman some of the ideas are stupid.

Keeping the helmet is a must, but why in god's name would they be wearing full armor and carrying around their shields in an age when being weighed down by 300 pounds of iron and not being able to move was bad thing.

I say give him the centurion helmet, and armor for the abdomen/torso. Give him some rennaisance pants and sleeves and call it a day.

 

[Xen]

but here the thing- of Rome had survived the would be NO RENNAISANCE!- the rennaisance means "the re-birth"- yht rebirth of classical knowledge- knowledge that wouldnt have to have been re-born if Romae had not of fallen... as such, there would be no rennaisance styles and such...

at any rate, I think the sheild be kept as the gun stand, after all, i do reming you that this is the unit he is intedened to replace-