The Next Step

[1889]

I’m still gathering information but a plan is starting to form. Loco appears to be our only close neighbor. They have proven themselves incapable of being useful trading partners and have repeatedly ignored our requests for resources. So I think it may be time to go and take them.

I would guess that they have also failed to befriend any other teams but the map would prevent any aid even if they haven’t. When we finish the Heroic Epic we can create an invasion force quickly while they still lack hunting and their copper mine would be one of our first targets.

The major problem I see is the cost. Our economy is going to be a serious constraint and war may cut into our research budget. We can mitigate these costs slightly with Vassalage to get more free units but we would loose the income benefits of Bureaucracy.

What do you think?

 

[dutchfire]

I think we should wait until we can't expand peacefully anymore. The cost at the moment is too high.

 

[Theoden]

I've been thinking about exploiting their lack of hunting as well, but the chance that they'll have it before we're even ready to invade is big. And even then they could research it quickly.

I think we need to do the calculations on this. How much benefit would be gain compared to expanding peacefully? Keep in mind that Loco's cities would cost a lot of distance maintenance. And then there's the risk/reward factor to consider, which is less of a problem with peaceful expansion.

I'm not completely refusing the idea, I just want to make sure we don't do the same mistake as my team in the civ3 MDTG (team TNT) did, where we used too many resources for war too soon resulting in a bad position fairly early and eventually costing us the game.

 

[Nomad Bryce]

Hah, I don't have much right to talk, but a long distance war seems totally cost ineffective? Why not just expand ourselves cheaper or invest in domestic improvements? What makes far away conquered cities better than new closer cities? It sounds like a logistics nightmare.

 

[1889]

The main benefit would be the resources we can't get close by, but religious capitols are good money makers and capturing cities with a bunch of people and some improvements are much cheaper than building them ourselves.

Roughly the plan I had in mind was for our sentry warrior to walk down south looking for any Loco sentries because behind him would be maybe 4 longbows and a catapult. This force can take a weakly defended city or just pillage improvements, mainly copper.

A galley with two longbows would sail around to pillage the other copper or just pillage the road delivering copper to the other cities.

4 camel archers would run down to do the serious work while another galley brings down two catapults to batter the cultural defenses.

As for cost, we won't need too many units due to the large disparity in power which also means we can get it started rather soon. Capturing or razing cities can bring in quite enough cash to pay for most of it and also our economy is projected to show a profit soon anyway that money will need to be spent on something.

We are in a currently in a very strong position vs. loco and can not be certain which way that balance will shift in the future.

 

[Lord Parkin]

Remember that once the war starts, it will become far harder to progress to take any further cities, since Loco will go into full defense mode. The element of surprise may be our most powerful weapon (as I've found in many other multiplayer games).

 

[1889]

I'm all for a much more powerful first strike, but its a question of cost effectivness. Unit support and away costs can be allowed to get out of hand and big build ups also delay our attack. Did you have something specific in mind? I'm still thinking how we can best handle it.

 

[Lord Parkin]

Personally, I think it is still too early (and distances are too great) to be going on a military campaign to conquer Loco's cities. However, I'd be in support of a razing campaign, with the simple purpose of putting them so far behind as to be unable to compete. A razing campaign also doesn't require as many troops, since you just need to attack and not hold the cities. Your troops do need to be more concentrated and focused for a razing campaign, though. Hit them hard and fast, or not at all.

 

[1889]

Well currently I'm thinking we should capture the two coastal cities and raze the rest. They are 12 tiles away from Wheelville. For comparison Magadan and site 11 are 10 tiles, Sinsburg and Polynesia are 8 and Dzeta is 14 tiles from our capitol.

I'm totally against leaving some half dead civ around. If we hurt them that bad it couldn't take much more to finish the job, anyway all they will do is try to help our enemies in some failed bid for revenge.

 

[1889]

Looking over the map I don't think it is feasible to cut off both coppers so I’m thinking of a different approach.

Two galleys would ship two catapults and 6 longbows next to B and O (over 3 turns while the cats do their work) to raze or capture Loco's main production city and 1 of 2 barracks in the opening phase of the war.

 

[1889]

Each captured city will cost 8-9 gold in maintenance, but I didn't consider the effect of inflation or increased civics costs. Sounds like a lot but the cities will already have significant population and improvements, we may have numerous foreign trade routes, and 3 of them are religious capitols...

I'm not so certain we must raze very much of it.

 

[Theoden]

Well, if we go to war we should probably keep the three holy cities and raze the rest. We could be going for a religious strategy with the shrines' gold allowing us 100% science spending (hopefully). The rest of their cities will cost far too much in the short term to make up for the benefit later on, which is why we are better off razing them.

 

[1889]

My plan now is to send 4 galleys with 4 cats and 4 longbows to take B and O. 1 galley will then head west along the coast, the other 3 will return to take 6 camel archers to Pennsylvania. After healing these units will advance to Locos capitol (probably going to be a tough fight), while the 3 galleys bring some units to capture Reading. Then we have two cities left to mop up.

Just a plan to begin with, unexpected event will happen but all the galleys, and large numbers of cavalry, should give us the mobility to adjust our forces as required.

 

[Theoden]

Do we have any units near that move in and spy a bit on their defenses? (Pretending to be an innocent explorer off course, so they don't suspect anything.) I'd really like to know what exactly we're up against before attacking them with a big costly army.

 

[Lord Parkin]

Do we have any units near that move in and spy a bit on their defenses? (Pretending to be an innocent explorer off course, so they don't suspect anything.) I'd really like to know what exactly we're up against before attacking them with a big costly army.

Ditto. Scout first, then strategise.

 

[1889]

I can build an extra galley and sail it in first. Then rather than have the 4th galley head west after dropping troops at B and O it can sail through site 11 and open trade with Piffle or go back to Chowderton and hurry up reinforcments.

 

[1889]

Ok here are my suggestions for the build que to make an invasion army.

Chowderton can build Longbow, catapult, mace, cat, long, cat, mace, cat in about 10 turns.

Wheelville can build 1 galley after the lighthouse.

Ploughland can build 3 galleys in 12-13 turns.

So we leave one boat to patrol the west coast, one to scout Loco's coast then 4 to dump our troops next to B and O.

The next phase is to send 3 galleys back to pick up 6 camel archers.