Based on Perfection's famous thread, which I'n sure I don't need to point to... The claim is generally phrased in one of these ways: "There were no morals before <religion X>" "Morality does not exist outside of <religion Y> "All the evil and loss of morality in our society is directly tied to increased secularisation and the destruction of <religion Z>" Sometimes evolution is mentioned too. REFUTATION 1: (This particular Necronomicon is 3500-4500 years old.) REFUTATION 2: The Abolition of Man by C.S. Lewis. I'm lazy, go read it yourself, good night. Oh, and I'm back here at CFC OT. I hope you like my posting frenzy. I'll probably be handing this thread over to someone else just as soon as I get bored with it; hopefully I can at least reduce the number of claims like the ones I listed above. Because they annoy me.