The Official Perfection KOs Creationism Thread Part Three: The Return of the KOing!

[carlosMM]

tsk tsk tsk, what's all this AiG ignorance over here?

crocodiles are secondary endotherms, with a secondary reversion to a sprawling gait as the usual mode of terrestrial locomotion. They are, after all, archosaurs

 

[Che Guava]

tsk tsk tsk, what's all this AiG ignorance over here?

crocodiles are secondary endotherms, with a secondary reversion to a sprawling gait as the usual mode of terrestrial locomotion. They are, after all, archosaurs

Uh...eahy, what he said

 

[The Last Conformist]

He's saying that crocodiles started out more dino-like in metabolism and locomotion than they are now. I'm not sure how this is relevant to anything, however - we were talking about Recent crocodiles.

 

[carlosMM]

we were talking about Recent crocodiles.

indeed - who have a totally different locomotiory aparatus when compared to e.g. turtles or snakes or lizards etc.

the fact that to a layperson their usual mode of locomotion is the same as that of lizards doesn't make it correct to throw them into the same bucket when arguing dinosaur locomotion. Crocs living in dino times had the SAME type of locomotion.

 

[The Last Conformist]

I didn't read the actual article - the quotes provided did not compare croc locomotion to lizard or turtle.

I dare say even the layest layperson realizes that croc locomotion is rather different from snake locomotion!

 

[carlosMM]

TLC:

Most other reptiles have limbs in a sprawling position. For instance, compare the way a crocodile ‘walks’ with that of, say, a cow. Dinosaurs would have moved like a cow, with the limbs supporting the body from beneath. Crocodiles ‘waddle,’ as their limbs project sideways from their body.

as you can seem crocodiles get lumped into 'reptiles', and a claim is made without qualification that they move the way all other 'reptiles' do.

 

[ironduck]

What were crocs like in the dino age if they had the same locomotion as dinos? I didn't realize their locomotion had changed.. why did it change?

 

[The Last Conformist]

TLC:


as you can seem crocodiles get lumped into 'reptiles', and a claim is made without qualification that they move the way all other 'reptiles' do.

It doesn't actually say crocs use the same sprawling stance as lizards et sim., but you're right, that seems to be what they're implying.

 

[Che Guava]

What were crocs like in the dino age if they had the same locomotion as dinos? I didn't realize their locomotion had changed.. why did it change?

If they haven't changed much since then, I would assume that it would be because of changes in thier environment. Maybe cooler temperatures and different atmosphere makes for less efficient metabolism....?

 

[Low Tier Hero]

Aplogies for the potential Troll post; but I just want to say I've learned a great deal about biology from this thread. Im not very intelligent when it comes to the sciences; my particular brainpower works elsewhere I think

But, that being said, It has caused me to go off and research the topic and look forward to the discussion as it goes on.

Thanks

-An Idle Mind

 

[carlosMM]

What were crocs like in the dino age if they had the same locomotion as dinos? I didn't realize their locomotion had changed.. why did it change?

well, during the triassic early crocodilomorphs adopted a parasagittal position of both arms and legs. Much like their very close relatives from which dinosaurs evolved. those crocs were active land hunters, with an al least somewhat hightened control of their body temp, slim, high-oval bodies, long legs with elongated metatarsals and a narrow trackway.

later, for some reason (quite possibly being out-endothermed by dinos), they returned to the semi-aquatic predator niche, where they still are today. Lying in wait for prey means that a low metabolic rate is advisable, same as the ability to abduct the lges to 90° or more. Also, swimming by wagging the tail from side to side makes a flat-oval body a smart move.

but still today, crocs CAN up their metabolism - if you give them enough food and outside heat they CAN up the basic RESTING rate to almost mammal levels - no lizard can do that!

 

[Masquerouge]

This thread is a lot less funny without creationists

 

[The Last Conformist]

The Mesozoic also saw a variety of marine crocodylomorphs with the legs reengineered to flippers.

 

[Erik Mesoy]

Aplogies for the potential Troll post; but I just want to say I've learned a great deal about biology from this thread. Im not very intelligent when it comes to the sciences; my particular brainpower works elsewhere I think

But, that being said, It has caused me to go off and research the topic and look forward to the discussion as it goes on.

Thanks

-An Idle Mind

That's great to hear! Part of the work done in this thread is so that spectators and lurkers can get an idea of what constitutes proper science.

 

[Babbler]

This thread is a lot less funny without creationists

Damn straight.

 

[ironduck]

Thanks for the info Carlos

 

[ironduck]

This thread is a lot less funny without creationists

Go watch the banana video that proves intelligent design then

 

[The Last Conformist]

For the reading pleasure of carlosMM, and anyone else who likes to see cretinists dissected:

http://plesiosaur.com/creationism/illusion/index.php

 

[Erik Mesoy]

diablodelmar from the other thread which he hijacked:

If we are here merely by accident, then our thought processes must be accident as well. I see no reason why we, pure accidents, should realise that we are accidents. Accidents result in disorder, as the 2nd law of thermodynamics tells us (and common sense, which evolutionists lack in a great degree).

Faulty logic in the first sentence, argument from incredulity in the second sentence, irrelevant statement and ad hominem in the third sentence.

The Earth gets energy from the Sun. This makes the 2nd law of thermodynamics irrelevant up until the Sun begins running out of energy.

Did you know that among Archeologists (even secular ones too) carbon dating is a joke? You'll find (and by their own admission) that it is only ever quoted if it agrees with their prior assumptions! Did you know that a live penguin was carbon dated to be 5,000 years old? What a dumb theory.

No, I didn't know it, and it's standard practice to only cite results that agree with normally assumed views of reality. If I jolt my measuring scale and find that I've weighed up -500 grams of flour while baking a cake, I won't start a new theory; I will throw the result (and perhaps the scale) out and measure up a new ration of flour.
I want a source for the carbon dating of the penguin.

 

[The Last Conformist]

Don't bother. Radiocarbon tests on living animals give crazy results do to two very obscure scientific phenomena known as "metabolism" and "atmospheric nuclear tests". diablodelmar's objection is of no significance except as further evidence he doesn't know what he's talking about.