The one most cheating game-breaking tech ever.

[Somebody613]

Is Barter.
Seriously.
Unless you are being personally targeted by an angry neighbor (or a huge barbarian horde) - the moment you unlock Barter, YOU WIN.
Literally.
Sure, it will take you SOME MORE TURNS to actually FEEL it - but you HAVE ALREADY WON by that point.
Reason?
Traders.
Both types, but especially the production one.
It DOES NOT MATTER if it takes you 50 turns to build *ONE*.
The NEXT TURN you WILL HAVE *THREE* of them already.
The TURN AFTER - *NINE*.
And it only gets FASTER from there.
In the NEXT *FIVE* TURNS you will have enough *EXCESS PRODUCTION* to literally build ANYTHING - and STILL continue pumping out MORE TRADERS each turn.
And then there are "buildings" that convert production into CULTURE and RESEARCH (and ESPIONAGE, but that's mostly pointless, as is MONEY).
Oh, and you can INVEST as many Traders as you want - and still NOT LOSE the next turn, because these special buildings work perfectly even when NOT being built, when you ADD production to them.
So you can convert *HUNDREDS* of Traders into culture or research - and then simply SWITCH OUT of building that thing altogether.
Yup, by then you will have ALL of that - and MORE.
So, yup, no matter where you are WHEN you reach this point (YES, even if you ARE "far behind in tech", it WON'T MATTER in 20-30 turns anyways) - unless you are being swarmed and overwhelmed ALREADY or BEFORE it, you WILL WIN if you use your BRAIN effectively.
This isn't an "IF", this is a "WHEN".
100% guarantee, if you survive UNTIL this point.
Which, honestly, is quite FAR for an Eternity game - so don't feel RELAXED until you DO reach it.
Enjoy your GAME-BREAKING CHEAT KNOWLEDGE now, because I sure WILL, loool.
The end.

P.S.
This is on Settler, so it MIGHT be much "worse" on the other side of the difficulty scale, lol.
But I doubt it will be MUCH worse, and it will definitely WORK the same way anyways, just SLOWER.
So instead of FIVE turns you will need TWENTY - but you WILL still reach the moment when you manage to have EXCESS PRODUCTION *and* EXCESS TRADERS.
Eventually, at least.
Or so I hope, duh.

 

[Maltazard]

Normally, traders are a limited national unit, you can only have 5 of each by default... for the obvious balance reasons you've pointed out. Generally I keep them at hand to boost a critical wonder, or to speed up the very initial development of new cities until hurry production with gold becomes available.

Try playing on noble by the way, settler is basically free build mode. On noble you'll still lead over the AI by a large margin, but it won't feel like a completely free win.
Also yes, emperor and higher difficulties are indeed much worse, they're the complete opposite game play experience from settler... you will likely lose. But you can find a sweet spot between the difficulty level, which you can also change dynamically "on the fly" in the BUG menu, and all the different game options available (like limited national units in the specific case of traders) which can also have a great impact on the AI and your own empire management, to have a game that is challenging, balanced and not impossible to win.

 

[JosEPh_II]

@Somebody613 ,

LOL you are playing on the Cheat Difficulty setting of Settler still!??? Really??? C'mon man get real. Settler is for teaching children how to play BtS and C2C. No player of the Civ series after playing any games on vanilla BtS shoulder ever play Settler except for Fun and to whip the AI at their leisure. Even starting on Noble for any player with even a smidgeon of Civ experience is just for Fun and leisure.

So No, your observation lacks merit. Play on Monarch or Emperor for a few games and then report back on Barter. Or take a real plunge and play a game on Deity or Nightmare Deity (if it is still available in the options). Until then as a Modder I have to at your exaggerations. Not being mean or cruel but just straightforward with you.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Aside from what others have pointed out, I've expressed in many other threads the desire to deeply change how these units work, in part for these reasons. Also, there could currently be some balance issues if you're able to ROI on production, that SHOULD be corrected somewhat with the unit overhaul project fairly soon. I'm not sure it would never be possible on that difficulty setting of course, since everything is so dramatically discounted in cost, including merchant units.

 

[Somebody613]

A few points:

1. If and when I shall want to STRUGGLE in my game, I'll go immediately for the max difficulty, definitely.
This isn't the case NOW, though.

2. And why so?
Because I still want to EXPLORE the later half of the Tech Tree more than merely Win The World.
I'm much more interested in colonizing the Moon (which this map HAS now) now than in wiping/absorbing everyone still on Earth.

3. And thus I'll obviously CHEAT (heck, half the games I play, I go as far as giving myself Cheat Engine BOOSTS all along).
This is the one-in-a-while game that I DID NOT outright CHEAT outside of the next point.

4. I do "cheat" in yet another way, but this one is actually not-really-a-cheat.
I play as Israel - and I have a manually placed Jerusalem sit EXACTLY in-between Mount Sinai and Dead Sea.
That's TWO WONDER BUILDINGS pretty much from the very START.
And yet this is NOT a cheat, because not only this is the ACTUAL MAP feature, but the location of Jerusalem is more or less CORRECT to begin with.
In other words, playing as the POTENTIAL Israel on this map is ITSELF a "not-cheat cheat", loool.
This IS my current game, by the way.
Oh, yeah, I also gave myself all the Native Cultures for the sake of not wasting my time on getting those elsewhere, but it's way minor compared to the MAP Wonders.

 

[Somebody613]

Aside from what others have pointed out, I've expressed in many other threads the desire to deeply change how these units work, in part for these reasons. Also, there could currently be some balance issues if you're able to ROI on production, that SHOULD be corrected somewhat with the unit overhaul project fairly soon. I'm not sure it would never be possible on that difficulty setting of course, since everything is so dramatically discounted in cost, including merchant units.

Um, on the current setting, the unit costs 110 and gives 330 - so what are the numbers for max difficulty?
Note that it doesn't matter how many turns it takes to build the FIRST one, only how many MORE I'd get from re-investing it.
That said, even having it at 5 max at any time, it still depends on the ratio.
As long as it is BETTER than "use 5 to get 5" (even if just "use 4 to get 5") - it's still a FREE and CONSTANT BOOST anyways.
Even at the pace of ONE FREE Trader per turn, it's better than NO BOOST whatsoever.
And I still hope it's NOT that bad.
So?

 

[Thunderbrd]

Um, on the current setting, the unit costs 110 and gives 330 - so what are the numbers for max difficulty?

There are more scalings than just difficulty but on noble and above it shouldn't be giving more than it costs. IF it does, it's just a temporary bug based on moving the unit and recosting the unit to where the tech moved to on the tree but not recosting the production output. The unit review puts the Early Merchant at a base of 37 cost and 12 production it gives. I'm not sure what the current # comparison actually is.

 

[Somebody613]

There are more scalings than just difficulty but on noble and above it shouldn't be giving more than it costs. IF it does, it's just a temporary bug based on moving the unit and recosting the unit to where the tech moved to on the tree but not recosting the production output. The unit review puts the Early Merchant at a base of 37 cost and 12 production it gives. I'm not sure what the current # comparison actually is.

Well, OK.
So it's a CHEAT for CHEATERS, lol.
Still doesn't mean I won't use it in the current game, of course.
I'm always so slow and lazy that it takes me enough time to have to restart a game due to major updates, lol.
Maybe this time I'll manage to get somewhere before I get bored OR the game updating breaks it again.
Nah...

 

[Somebody613]

Ya know what?
Maybe I should actually try a Max Difficulty (but No Barbs, cause it's too annoying and time consuming) game for Israel.
To see what I get from the location bonus itself.
Or maybe not, cause that'd be WAY. TOO. SLOW. DAMMIT.
Ir maybe not on Eternity then, huh (as in, on Ultra-fast, because I NEVER play on "middle options" of ANYTHING - either MAX or MIN, never MIDDLE).
Whatever.
I'll figure SOMETHING eventually.

 

[raxo2222]

There are more scalings than just difficulty but on noble and above it shouldn't be giving more than it costs. IF it does, it's just a temporary bug based on moving the unit and recosting the unit to where the tech moved to on the tree but not recosting the production output. The unit review puts the Early Merchant at a base of 37 cost and 12 production it gives. I'm not sure what the current # comparison actually is.

Below Noble unit and building are discounted for players.
On settler discount is like 60%.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Below Noble unit and building are discounted for players.
On settler discount is like 60%.

I figure that has a lot to do with it. I'm not sure what the base values are for the Early Merchant now though. I don't have that info as close on hand.

 

[Trantor]

also spam build great farmer and become the bread basket of the world. great farmer should be like hero unit ---only can be build once

 

[Thunderbrd]

also spam build great farmer and become the bread basket of the world. great farmer should be like hero unit ---only can be build once

It's a plan to make them an actual great person someday. Though they SHOULD take too long to complete their builds to be TOO impressive. Still, a special AI for them is likely warranted as well so that the AI knows they need to use them properly, though they used to spam them when they were able to more so maybe they do use them well when they can.

 

[Harrier]

also spam build great farmer and become the bread basket of the world. great farmer should be like hero unit ---only can be build once

Not played for a long time. So (unless I did not understand your post! - which is possible.) this must be a recent change. Previously you could only build 1 great farmer at a time (not spam build them) and then you had to wait for them to build the newly aquired resource on an empty tile. Only then could you build another one. If I am wrong I do not like this change.

You have to be able to build more than one - otherwise you can not transfer all resources between continents.

Example: Did Raleigh bring potato or tobacco to England. (not both!)

Bad 'Bob Newman' recollection. "Hey Walt, these potato's - do you put them in your mouth and then set fire to them?" - laughing.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Not played for a long time. So (unless I did not understand your post! - which is possible.) this must be a recent change. Previously you could only build 1 great farmer at a time (not spam build them) and then you had to wait for them to build the newly aquired resource on an empty tile. Only then could you build another one. If I am wrong I do not like this change.

And they should take quite a long time to complete the task as well. I hope it's still like this too.