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The one thing they absolutely NEED to fix.

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by Germnoble, May 25, 2016.

  1. Germnoble

    Germnoble Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2010
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    Location:
    Canada
    Nearly every single trade I have successfully made is wildly unfair for me. I am absolutely shocked when I get an even remotely fair trade, which is roughly a 1/50 occurrence.


    Ok, my city is asking for Citrus. Who's got Citrus. Ah! England has 2 citrus! How about one of my three coppers and a gold per turn.

    Oh, you want 5 of my coal, all 6 of my Iron, my copper, my cotton, my crabs and 38 gold per turn. For one Citrus.


    HOW IS THAT FAIR? I'M NOT ON FREAKING DEITY! WHO THE HELL PROGRAMMED THIS GARBAGE? IT'S FREAKING IMPOSSIBLE TO GET A FAIR TRADE OUT OF THESE IDIOT AI'S.


    Why should I EVER give multiple Luxuries for a single luxury! Unless they have the only Citrus and it's 1 resources worth. I should only EVER have to pay more gold.


    Why would ANYONE ever give up ALL OF THEIR OIL OR ALUMINIUM FOR A SINGLE LUXURY? Why in Gods name would I ever give you every luxury and strategic resource I have for a friggin' Orange?


    Is there EVER a circumstance where an AI will agree to a <snip> deal like it's been giving you all game? Nope, NEVER! Unless you're making peace with a Civ your kicking the colour out of they won't offer you anything more then a 1 for 1 trade or occasionally, if venus is in retro alignment with mars, they might offer you 1 for 1 and some gold.

    Moderator Action: Please do not use foul language, nor try to fool the autocensor. Offending word snipped.
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889


    If the first trade I make in Civ VI doesn't give me a heart attack from the absolute fairness of it I'm getting a refund.
     
  2. stealth_nsk

    stealth_nsk Deity

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    1. Civ6 is not Civ5. Such thing as resource trade may be not existent in those terms.

    2. Speaking about Civ5, I don't think that's a problem. It's just AI refuse to trade on normal terms with those they don't like.
     
  3. Riker

    Riker True Metal of Steel

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    But then you get some uranium for a bunch of horses and it's not so grim anymore
     
  4. kaltorak

    kaltorak Emperor

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    AI doesn't play like a human. It has bonuses, it uses his resources with much less efficiency than we do, it doesn't minmax trading for achieving important things...
    You gain much more from a specific trade than the AI does, because you will use it much better.

    Anyway, I don't see why is this such an important "fix" like you say. So, you want to earn X more with trades while the AI is getting 5 times X in hidden bonuses to raise its difficulty?
     
  5. Germnoble

    Germnoble Warlord

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    Location:
    Canada

    I have been trading with Civs I've been allied with the entire game and the diplo screen says friendly.



    I want the AI to play friggin fair. If the AI doesn't work. Fix it.
     
  6. Felis Renidens

    Felis Renidens Prince

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    Would have been nice but probably won't happen: having something based on Civ2 trade system where cities have supply and demand for luxuries, only instead of the old random supply a city supply is what luxury resources the city develops, the demand whatever they need to love the king. If there is a caravan going to a city that produces what you demand - you get a happiness bonus for the city (as there is no more global happiness anyway) and they love you.
    If there is a caravan going to a city that demands what your city produces you get a gold bonus.
    If several connected cities demand the same luxury and one got it through trade - the other cities will get a happiness bonus too, and the other side might get some more gold.
    The bonus will be gone when demand changes.

    Trading in strategic resources should my opinion be more difficult. Perhaps if you have an alliance or something.
     
  7. Ryika

    Ryika Lazy Wannabe Artista

    Joined:
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    Trading is already more beneficial for the human player, because they get a positive diplomatic modifier and exactly the goods they need out of it.

    Overall, in my opinion there is no need for "fair" deals, unless the AI gets a serious overhaul that makes it so they only trade if they really need something - which in itself would already be a huge nerf for the Human Trader. If the system stays roughly the same then it's only reasonable for the human player to pay more, simply because they can trade exactly what they need for while the AI semi-randomly trades just about anything.

    It's really only a matter of "getting over it" and seeing the AI more like a neutral Trade hub. Yes, you have to put more resources in than you get out, but you get exactly what you want, that's the benefit. Paying a bit extra is a good price for that.

    Or as the AI would say: "Human must stop using brain, is playing unfair." - a "fair" battle between AI and human is an impossible thing that will never happen.
     
  8. kaltorak

    kaltorak Emperor

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    Fix means something is broken. The AI is giving you the values it is designed to give, so it is working.
    And the reason why it uses such values, it's because it needs to be challenging. It's impossible to make an AI play as well as a player in such a complex game. Chess AIs analyze thousends of future movements, that is not possible in a game like this. So they have to compensate it by giving it bonuses.
     
  9. Stilgar08

    Stilgar08 Emperor

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    since there are resources for sure you can trade them for sure... Everything else would be a huge step back and even less interaction with AI... And it would be hard to explain to players why they couldn't trade resources anymore.

    First of all you don't seem to be on good terms with your trade-partner. I often get good deals from my allies or friends. Or at least not too bad ones ;) . which adds flavour to the game...

    Second, maybe the citrus is much more important for you than it is for him? One Citrus is enough for your whole empire... Must be a BIG citrus. :crazyeye: Presumably your empire is larger than AIs, that's another thing to take into account.

    And the tradeoff for all your stuff you might get is not one luxury but increased happiness hereby helping production, science, growth etc.etc... And AI knows that...

    Last it's just like kaltorak said: AI is not as good in handling it than humans are, so their deal needs to be much better than yours. I remember AI doing crazy stupid deals to the big advantage of the human player in CivIII and IV which wasn't better either; you just thought "what a stupid move!"

    Fix the AI? Do it and make tons of money! I suppose it's not as easy as you might think...

    I know these kind of deal-offers as well, of course. But I'm having lots of occasions with more or less fair deals in CiV and expect that to happen in CivVI, too.
     
  10. Myth and Legend

    Myth and Legend Prince

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    I have NEVER had this happen to me. Don't know what your deal is but:

    1. I only play on Deity
    2. Every civ that I have normal or positive relations with gives me:

    1 copy of their luxury for 9 gpt

    or

    1 copy of their luxury for 240 gold

    or

    1 copy of their luxury for 1 copy of my luxury

    The only time the situation you describe happens is if this is their LAST copy of said luxury or if they hate your guts.

    TL;DR: L2P
     
  11. Acken

    Acken Deity

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    The ai increases the value of luxs it has only one of by 3. And it also increases it further if it doesnt like someone.
     
  12. Haggbart

    Haggbart King

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    Wow. That most be the most trivial complaint/rant ever.

    Also, if the AI doesn't need your luxury resource but know you need theirs - why wouldn't it demand an insane price for it? I know I would do the same to you if we played competitive MP. Would you complain that my programming sucked?
     

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