The only thing that makes deity hard is...the turn lag

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Nog, Oct 15, 2010.

  1. Nog

    Nog Warlord

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    From the other thread I had about how comical it is to call deity (their description) a setting for "the best in the world", a few people asked to post save games.

    So I thought I'd not only post save games but save them before each Civ is wiped out and on each major map type (pangea, continents, archi, etc.)

    I've done them all so far, easily, except pangea is now taking forever to finish! England has half the map and I have the other half but for some reason, the turn lag is SO slow I can't finish. That and I'm so bored of the game it's pretty much done for me. And I normally didn't complain about the turn lag. It's sad for the state of what other games can do today, but it was bearable...barely.

    Why does turn lag get worse on pangea (and somewhat worse on deity in general)?

    The AI makes NO decisions differently than any other level - they just start with 40 times the resources and hence are more aggressive.

    Name one thing you've noticed while being "the best in the world" that is any different than the beginner level, other than resources?

    It's like selling people a computer chess simulation and and having the difficulty levels remove your men (or give the AI opponent more men) instead of *gasp* causing it to actually play better.

    I feel I've got my hours worth before shelving this game but it's almost embarassing and criminal with the product they released.

    If I wasn't so lazy, I'd probably write some certified letters and make sure I got a refund (or, like I did once with one company - long story - filed in small claims and they quickly offered me MUCH MUCH more than I ever dreamed of to make me and the bad PR go away).

    Not ask for a refund because the game sucks so bad - others were as bad, but don't advertise it as being something it's not. It just insults our intelligence.

    I really feel bad for the people who bought this and hated everything else I could at least stomach - but the AI is comical. And no patch will fix it without 'cheating' or cause it play differently.

    I now feel all the hate everyone else had on week 1 but have since moved on. Definitely adding both the dev and publisher to my list of "do not buy again or wait until feedback shows it's a top 10 game."
     
  2. civnoob13

    civnoob13 King

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    I will just vent here - the stupid game crashed on me, and I have lost about an hour of work. Well, more specifically, 10 minutes of work, and 50 minutes of waiting for a response from the game.

    The first patch HAS to increase speed, and make the AI better. Leave the balance issues until a later date; the mods can deal with them in the mean time. The game is close to unplayable for me now, just because of how damn slow it is.
     
  3. Nog

    Nog Warlord

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    Yeah, I want to appologize to all the vets on here that I somewhat mocked when I first found these forums after buying Civ 5.

    I really could not get into Civ 3 or 4 so didn't play them much and had no expectations of this game other than what the publisher/developer were advertising it to be (and the previews I could find).

    And my inital experiences seemed like all the :):):):):)ing on here was weird because the game was fine! Until, like I didn't do at the time, is play more than a handful of games and you see just how bad things really are.

    World-class POOR performance, AI, and stability is the only award this game deserves.

    And I have a high-end i7 processor and a 5870 that take the most demanding games on high/ultra settings and spit them out like it's a text-based adventure demo.

    Yet Civ 5 makes me feel like I'm playing it on an iPhone.

    /fail

    Moderator Action: Swearing is not allowed on these forums, if you see that a word in your post has triggered the autocensor, please go back and edit your post. Thanks. :)
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  4. Thormodr

    Thormodr Servant of Civ Supporter

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    It's understandable. A lot of us got sucked in. The game seems fun at first as it's a new Civ game and there are new things to discover but the honeymoon period wears off quick.

    The turn lag is pretty bad and I have above average system specs too.
     
  5. Manifold

    Manifold ModderProtectionAdvocate

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    come on bro, if you need a more difficult game start with your Civ on a tiny island; if your cpu is to slow, play a smaller map
     
  6. civnoob13

    civnoob13 King

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    I still find the game fun.

    I just can't get to too late of an era, because the game is too laggy. This needs to be resolved. A few good patches would make this game 100X better. It has so much potential, but it will never get anywhere if you have to wait anything more than a few seconds for a new turn, let alone a good 5 mins.
     
  7. Nog

    Nog Warlord

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    That is another grounds for a refund.

    Yes, the game has a setting for 12 civs and 24 city states. Sounds grand...

    If you don't mind taking a turn an hour and playing a game over 4 months. And don't try it and say "it works fine!" like I did :p Get into the end-game when there is constant war and units everywhere, especially on deity (and still not much of a challenge sadly), and see what it's like. Literally unplayable. The AI makes you cry/laugh along with the comical wait times.

    So yes, the feature is technically there but unplayable unless you are into torture and have low self-esteem.
     
  8. civnoob13

    civnoob13 King

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    So we need to completely alter how we play the game so the specs it said it would work with actually work?
     
  9. civnoob13

    civnoob13 King

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    Exactly. When i started the game, I was rolling my eyes at the people who were complaining about it, but this is the first game I have bothered to go on for so long and also have a war on. It is torturously slow.
     
  10. Nog

    Nog Warlord

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    I would feel like I'm bragging if I posted all my hardware components (it's a hobby of mine - including OC'ing and constantly upgrading/testing new parts) and don't need to go there.

    Even Crysis back in the day flew on my machine when most couldn't play high settings. I constantly upgrade and keep the latest because, as I mentioned, it's a side hobby.

    NOTHING has had performance issues like Civ 5 does and it's not the demand on the CPU or GPU as I check while it's running.

    It's just poor coding. Again, appologies to the vets as they saw/knew this and I didn't to start.

    And while it wouldn't be tolerable under any conditions really given the incredible games out there that do 100 times more, but I'd understand it if the AI didn't play like a college comp. sci. 101 project.

    That is insult to injury if the phrase ever applied...

    EDIT - I'm going to try and finish the pangea deity game and post the saves for all the map types (start before battling first civ and second save is before the last battle of last civ) and you can see for yourself how easy deity is and how bad performance is.

    All games are on small map (6 civs and 12 city states) with default settings for everything else.

    And I'm a below average Civ player and NEVER change anything on my cities besides the default option for control and half the time I don't even puppet cities :p

    Yeah, thats how pro you need to be to be the "best in the world." :)
     
  11. Manifold

    Manifold ModderProtectionAdvocate

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    of course it was somehow sad to start for the first time a game on a small map, but you can put more opponents on it - the most of them are wiped out before the later game begins;)

    for more difficult gaming i recommend ragging barbarians!
     
  12. Xzylvador

    Xzylvador Warlord

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    Got the same lag on emperor and largest map type really... 4Ghz Quadcore and 6GB RAM, took at least 15 minutes between turns, to the point that I actually ctrl-alt-del'ed back to desktop twice and restarted the game figuring it must've crashed.
    Then I took my laptop next to my PC and watched episodes of "The IT Crowd" between turns.
    Thing is, my processor or RAM weren't even being used. 19% of CPU and 56% RAM used, the rest was just sleeping, so I have no idea what Civ was doing, but it sure wasn't "thinking".
     
  13. Jpalmer1967

    Jpalmer1967 Chieftain

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    This game is so easy, my 3 cats are already bored with playing.:D You have to hit "end turn" on every other round without making a move just to keep things interesting, and you still win with your original army of six...
     
  14. tibbles

    tibbles Warlord

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    Not that CiV isn't sloow in later turns, but it's not the only game. For example, did you ever try HoMM5? The AI took like 30 seconds each every single turn. To move 1 guy. From turn 1...I never made it past turn 5.
     
  15. Markstar

    Markstar Warlord

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    What I find funny about this is that in their demo game (which was on a standard map), they played it on a "very high-end" computer and that had quite some lag between turns as well. No, it's not our computer. Mine also runs Crysis fine on 1920*1200 and I can't stand the waiting between turns in Civ5.

    Sad thing is...don't expect this to be fixed. :(
     
  16. ByblosHex

    ByblosHex Chieftain

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    Stop comparing this game to Crysis. Crysis had barely any CPU usage. This game is completely different in pretty much every aspect. I too can run Crysis and it's sequel on the highest settings at 1920x1080, but the AI in this game is just too complicated or it needs to be optimized.
     
  17. Nog

    Nog Warlord

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    Yeah, while I used to be in software development (business side, not gaming) and am now on the management side (I think I liked the geek-side better), you don't have to know what exactly is going on under the covers to know this isn't something a patch will be able to fix.

    They likely have 1-2 resources supporting the game if that because there is likely little budget and the others have moved on to another project (read: $$$) or been let go. I read about the layoffs before this was even released. They will try and fix this for an expansion because that is the only way they will get your $$$ moving forward.

    Any performance redesign and AI improvements will require a LOT of testing, something you would have though would have happened this first time around when there is a larger budget. So again, don't expect some entirely new product even in an expansion - and don't buy until you read 1000s of praising reviews ;)

    If I would have just waiting and read these forums first, I'd not only have saved $$$ but a lot of time trying to get my dollars worth in what I was expecting to be a great game. Bah!
     
  18. Markstar

    Markstar Warlord

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    I think you can compare it. Civ1 ran flawlessly on a 386 with about the same map size as Civ5 and actually more units on the map (the maps in Civ2 were actually considerably larger iirc). A 386 is about 1000x slower than a modern computer and the CPU back then was even responsible for most of the graphic calculations.

    And considering the Civ5-AI sucks at least as much as the Civ1-AI, I don't really see any excuse for this. One would assume the programmers behind Civ actually learned something in the past 20 years.

    No matter how you look at it, the source of horrible performance is crappy programming, which can't be fixed unless you get some new people who know what they are doing.

    I'm a computer scientist who specializes in AI and I am here because of Civilization (it all started with changing the intro text of Civ1) and it makes me very upset to see what happened to this once great game. :(
     
  19. Nog

    Nog Warlord

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    I think it's why it's been about 10 years or so since I played a true single-player game.

    Whether it's been MMOs I was addicted to, or RTS online games - most modern games and game companies take a great idea and put it online so you can play against others and they are just responsible for implementing solid game mechanics.

    As in SC2, they have a single-player campaign but each scenario is tightly scripted (not open ended) and as is the history of Blizzard, highly tested for great enjoyment.

    The days of single player games are pretty much over, and when you can't even put out a working product (and MP was released broken and they acknowledged they knew it), seems Firaxis' attempt at attracting your average gamer is likely over as well.
     
  20. EmpireOfCats

    EmpireOfCats Death to Giant Robots

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    The turn lag is a function of the number of workers, as has been demonstrated in the 2K forums in great detail; there is even a brutal fix for it that involves capping the numer of workers at one per civ. The problem is known and if you look at the list of stuff that is supposed to be in the next patch, it seems that at least part of it will be addressed. This is something that will be fixed, and though annoying as hell at the moment, not a long-term problem.

    The real question is if they can up the AI's IQ enough for it to make a fight worth while, and if the balancing mechanisms can be made to work.
     

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