The Opening Salvo of the Ron Paul Revolution

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Azale

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23541341
http://www.businessinsider.com/tamerlan-tsarnaev-extremist-right-wing-literature-2013-8
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323420604578649830782219440.html [paywall]

5 August 2013 Last updated at 00:21 ET

Tamerlan Tsarnaev had right-wing extremist literature

By Hilary Andersson

BBC News, Washington

One of the brothers suspected of carrying out the Boston bombings was in possession of right-wing American literature in the run-up to the attack, BBC Panorama has learnt.

Tamerlan Tsarnaev subscribed to publications espousing white supremacy and government conspiracy theories.

He also had reading material on mass killings.

Until now the Tsarnaev brothers were widely perceived as just self-styled radical jihadists.

Panorama has spent months speaking exclusively with friends of the bombers to try to understand the roots of their radicalisation.

'Government conspiracies'

The programme discovered that Tamerlan Tsarnaev possessed articles which argued that both 9/11 and the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing were government conspiracies.

Another in his possession was about "the rape of our gun rights".

Reading material he had about white supremacy commented that "Hitler had a point".

Tamerlan Tsarnaev also had literature which explored what motivated mass killings and noted how the perpetrators murdered and maimed calmly.

There was also material about US drones killing civilians, and about the plight of those still imprisoned in Guantanamo Bay.

'A Muslim of convenience'

The Tsarnaev brothers, ethnic Chechens, spent their early years moving around a troubled region of Russia torn by a violent Islamic insurgency.

But for the last decade they lived in Cambridge, near Boston.

The brothers' friends told us Tamerlan turned against the country and became passionate about Islam after becoming frustrated when his boxing career faltered because he did not have American citizenship.

Their friends wouldn't all speak openly because they were afraid of being wrongly viewed as associated with terrorism.

'Mike' spent a lot of time in the brothers' flat.

"He (Tamerlan) just didn't like America. He felt like America was just basically attacking all Middle Eastern countries…you know trying to take their oil."

A spokesperson for Tamerlan's mosque in Cambridge, Nicole Mossalam, said Tamerlan only prayed there occasionally. She portrayed him as an angry young man who latched onto Islam.

"As far connecting with the Islamic community here, to actually praying, being involved, doing acts of charity….all of those were pretty much lacking.

"I would say he was just a Muslim of convenience," she said.

Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, Tamerlan's younger brother who has been charged with the bombings, scrawled a note shortly before his capture stating "We Muslims are one body. You hurt one you hurt us all."

The brothers had been reading militant Islamic websites before the bombings.
Friends say the younger brother smoked copious amounts of pot and rarely prayed.
'Tito' told us Dzhokhar's older brother dominated him and didn't approve of his "party lifestyle".

"He (Dzhokhar) was intimidated, that would probably be the best word. He took him very seriously. He was an authority."

Radicalised by family?

The FBI has been investigating the brothers, and possible connections Tamerlan might have had in the troubled Russian republic of Dagestan which he visited last year.

The House Intelligence Committee in Washington is being briefed on his connections.
The committee chairman, Mike Rogers said he believes the brothers' mother, Zubeidat Tsarnaev, was involved in his radicalisation.

"He had family members encouraging, we know that for sure," he said.
Zubeidat denies the allegations.

Tamerlan was killed in April following a gun fight with police which ended when his younger brother ran him over while trying to escape.

Dzhokhar, recently brought to court, denied all charges.

If convicted he faces life imprisonment or the death penalty.

Shocker of shockers, the initial narrative was wrong. Followup shock and awe, Islamic terrorism and right-wing terrorism go together like peas in a pod.

Thoughts? Comments? Like link and subscribe?
 
I'm not comfortable in asserting that conservative American ideology and Islamic terrorism go hand in hand. I'm fine drawing parallels, for sure, but I think they are still worlds apart. Maybe I'm an optimist, but I don't think my conservative countrymen are on the whole nearly as violent or reactionary as Islamic terrorists. They are nice people that are very wrong on just about everything in my opinion but I'll not tar them by partially crediting them for the works of a murderer.
 
I feel like a kid in a candy store when I see an Azale poll. :)

I'd actually be kind of interested in what Tsarnaev actually thought about this white supremacist conspiracy stuff--he's not quite the intended audience.
 
It makes sense that violent culture here among white supremacist would mirror that of violent culture elsewhere. Many of the prison gangs are neo-nazis or white supremacist. Many there are in for either drugs and/or violence. They might try to put different masks on it like saying they are fighting for Islam or whatever. Radical extremism isn't new. It's been around for a long time.
 
What does this have to do with Ron Paul again?
 
What does this have to do with Ron Paul again?

You might have missed an earlier thread that showed that some of Ron Paul's most fervent supporters are white supremacists. And there's also that newsletter that Ron Paul put out that had some racial bias in it. That's the connection to this thread.
 
And that is how we should characterize Ron Paul and his supporters? By associating them with Tsarnaev?
 
And that is how we should characterize Ron Paul and his supporters? By associating them with Tsarnaev?
Absolutely not:

I'm not comfortable in asserting that conservative American ideology and Islamic terrorism go hand in hand. I'm fine drawing parallels, for sure, but I think they are still worlds apart. Maybe I'm an optimist, but I don't think my conservative countrymen are on the whole nearly as violent or reactionary as Islamic terrorists. They are nice people that are very wrong on just about everything in my opinion but I'll not tar them by partially crediting them for the works of a murderer.

But you asked for the link and here it is:
Dirka dirka muhammed Teahad!
 
I have a hard copy of the "Communist Manifesto" on my book shelf. It's pretty nice. It's actually right next to a copy of "Goodbye To All That" followed by "Lost Victories." What does that mean?

Most people are going to have a pretty eclectic collection of media around, especially someone who is obviously confused as these guys certainly were.
 
I don't support guilt by association. Just because some wackjob believes in your cause doesn't automatically mean that your leading a bad cause. Not that I support Ron Paul or any Ayn Rand style policy making, but I don't believe that should we judge him on having some racists supporters.
 
I feel like a kid in a candy store when I see an Azale poll. :)

I'd actually be kind of interested in what Tsarnaev actually thought about this white supremacist conspiracy stuff--he's not quite the intended audience.

As with every other azale thread, it's all about the tags.
 
I'm not comfortable in asserting that conservative American ideology and Islamic terrorism go hand in hand. I'm fine drawing parallels, for sure, but I think they are still worlds apart. Maybe I'm an optimist, but I don't think my conservative countrymen are on the whole nearly as violent or reactionary as Islamic terrorists. They are nice people that are very wrong on just about everything in my opinion but I'll not tar them by partially crediting them for the works of a murderer.


Not all conservative Muslims support terrorism either. But the radical extreme right of Islam and Christianity both have more in common with each other than either has with the majority of their own religion or country of origin.
 
I won't refute that but I won't go so far as to label one as the other or call them the same. I try and be careful too about who I am drawing comparisons between. When you paint with broad strokes as the OP seemed to do you risk calling anyone who self identitifies as a tea partier or righty as an extremist.

Which of course I have done plenty of times, so I am being blatantly hypocriticall. I am not sure I have yet crossed the dirka dirka teahad! line yet though and I hope I avoid it in the future. I have made some very nice conservative friends and I don't wish to make them feel the way I would feel if they lumped me in with the Weather Underground or something.

And I have come to the realization lately that one of the reasons that our political climate is so toxic of late is because of people like me stoking it with hyperbolic rhetoric. I am work in progress in that regard.
 
I'm not comfortable in asserting that conservative American ideology and Islamic terrorism go hand in hand. I'm fine drawing parallels, for sure, but I think they are still worlds apart. Maybe I'm an optimist, but I don't think my conservative countrymen are on the whole nearly as violent or reactionary as Islamic terrorists. They are nice people that are very wrong on just about everything in my opinion but I'll not tar them by partially crediting them for the works of a murderer.

There have been redneck nutjobs with ties to North Korea for christsake. These things are complicated, and the cleavages are not simple. I am not shocked in the least that American History X meets up with Al-Kaidah in many places.

I'd actually be kind of interested in what Tsarnaev actually thought about this white supremacist conspiracy stuff--he's not quite the intended audience.

It could be where reactionaries, ethnic/racial chauvinism, and anti-semites intersect. On top of that, he got just enough of a dose of history to think he knows something.

And that is how we should characterize Ron Paul and his supporters? By associating them with Tsarnaev?

 
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