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The Perfect Strategy

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by Neo Guderian, Nov 7, 2001.

  1. Neo Guderian

    Neo Guderian Panzerarmee General

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    :enlighten

    Hail to all my Civ Brothers!
    I have been playing since Saturday Nov 3rd and found to begin with that civ3 was a letdown in many areas. However, I felt the same way about ctp the first few times I played but later learned to love the game. Ill be patient with civ3.

    Last night I started a game, standard map, regent as France. there was not a great deal of land but enough room to build a decent civ. I rapidly expanded as I met 4 other civs very early in the game. This gave me an idea. If the AI has no trouble getting techs, why not buy my technology. So i managed to settled 7 cities and imediately set my science all the way to 0%. All of my cities built infrastructure and culture while the money begin to trickle in at first, growing with each turn. Soon I was purchasing Techs from the Americans, and selling the techs to the Germans, English, and Russians. I became a Day Trader. I could buy, for example, Literacy, and sell it to the others for a few gold per turn for 20 turns, making a profit on my initial investment. The game went on and I became a powerhouse with a 0% tech rate!!! I met the Indians and Japanese. by 1100 I was a powerful Republic, had a vault of 6000 gold, the most culturally advanced civ, a bristling military and loved by almost all the civs. Then i bought democracy from the americans and revolted. I suppose the mighty nation of France in anarchy was too good of an opportunity to pass up, so the americans attacked and captured Rheims. Immediately i brought the Russians, English and Germans against the Americans, who drew the indians and japanese into the conflict against The European Alliance (france, england, russia, and germany). It was World War I. The German Army poured into the american territories and captured boston, retook rheims for me,(which reverted back to france do to culture) after a few turns the americans begged for peace. ALl without myself firing a shot. (Behold the power of chee--umm,, allies)

    After the war, i enabled my science again up to 40% and was getting techs every 4-6 turns in the middle ages.

    Because I traded alot the other civs loved me. Most were gracious. Until the war that is. Peace persisted again until the Americans Blitzed and defeated the English in 8 turns, and again against the russians in 12 turns.

    A funny thing worth mentioning is neither the English nor the Russians requested for me to join them against the Americans. Even more surprising is the fact that the Russians turned down my offer for alliance against the americans while the 2 were at war!! So they got wiped out.

    So to boil it down, set your science rate to zero as soon as you meet a few civs,(1 or 2) and begin working on cultural and infrastructural improvments. It won't take long to acquire the techs early on to really build yourself up fast so that when you get to the later stages of the game you can focus on your specific type of goal (conquest, spaceship, diplomacy etc)

    Make the AI do the research, =)
    happy gaming and good luck.
     
  2. damunzy

    damunzy recovering former mod Retired Moderator

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    Good story Neo Guderian. What difficulty were you on? NM, I see now, Regent.

    I like the way the A.I. thinks most of the time but somedays they are jsut too loopy. Like the Russians not allying up with you versus the Americans.
     
  3. ironfang

    ironfang Warlord

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    Interesting. I have always found it to my advantage to gain the military advances at least 5 turns before my neighbors so I can upgrade to my advantage.

    ironfang
     
  4. Phoenix

    Phoenix Creating Scenarios

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    I normaly focus most of my taxes into tech advances so I can wipe out the enemy with my superior weapons. I am going to try your aproach to the game. :king:
    Do you think that corruption is out of control in Civ3.
     
  5. Suvorov

    Suvorov Chieftain

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    I usually find it easier to bully my way into technology. or, even better, occasionally "trim" down other civilizations through razing so they can never match me scientifically.
     
  6. The Ripper

    The Ripper ETERNAL PEACE BRINGER

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    Neo Guderian,you was like the Pope:a lot of influence,no tech research of your own,a lot of money,plus making others fight your crusades...
    Simply a genius!!!!
    In civ2 you could attempt this only if you were a medium civ between big ones,now it's far more possible and funny...:goodjob: :goodjob: :goodjob:
     
  7. Snipegod

    Snipegod Chieftain

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    Thanks for the Idea. I may have to try this out sometime. Sounds like it may fun depending on what way you want to finish game.
     
  8. Libertarian

    Libertarian Pansophist

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    A very interesting idea, Neo Guderian. One worth trying. Thanks.
     
  9. WUM

    WUM the Magnificent

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    wow, you must be a pro-diplomat !

    i will definitely try this at home...
     
  10. Neo Guderian

    Neo Guderian Panzerarmee General

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    The Pope Strategy(Thanks for the name, Ripper)
    The second game began yesterday afternoon.
    I decided to up the difficulty level to Monarch and see where I could go. 16 civs, huge map....

    I started in a great position, 3 furs and one incense, rivers and grassland galore. So I began my usual expansion until I had met the romans, Indians and Japanese. I ended up with 18 cities when i stopped (due to the terrible waiting for the comp to move)at 1100 ad. But I learned even more about the Theoretical(still in testing) Pope Strategy...

    1)Build a massive army. I made the mistake of concentrating on cultural improvements and didnt even really worry about my armed forces a whole lot. Although I was not attacked, I noticed that the AI charged a great deal more for the techs because I was weak. This is still just a theory and I will continue to test it tonight, but i think the stronger your forces, the cheaper the techs you buy will be....

    2)Trade Often.. Even if its simply offering each civ your territory map, give them something as often as is convenient. This will keep them happy toward you and reduce the costs of techs(they will charge far more if they are annoyed with you,or seems the case).

    3) DO NOT pay for techs with gold per turn. You will pay far more in the long run.

    4) Shop around. See what civs have which techs. The civs that you have delt with the most and are gracious toward you will usually sell techs for dirt cheap to you. Also try to buy techs from civs you are trading resources with. This seems to also reduce the cost.

    5)Imediately sell any non-strategic techs (non military techs, non wonder techs etc) to the civs that like you the least and are weaker than you. It seems you can get more gold from them.

    6)I havent tested this yet but when playing an expansionist/conquest strategy, to curb the effects of corruption, turn all of the citizens in captured cities to taxmen or scientists. This will effectively destroy the city after a period of time while giving you a boost. OR, you can leave high food producing cities intact and turn as many citizens into taxmen and scientists as possible. This is an old technique from civ2. I have yet to try it in civ3 and anyone who does let me know how it turns out.

    7) I recommend turning on your governors to manage your building while your doing all of that 'wheeling and dealing'. IT will save you alot of time. And dont forget to set the culture and trade improvements to 'build often'.

    Overall I think the 'Pope Strategy' (coined by The Ripper) will work well for late game. It easily allows the player to catch up to the AI's infrastructure AND science while keeping borders secure. I think this strategy will prove very useful in Diety where the player is at a severe disadvantage when it comes to science. Once the player gets to sanitation and Democracy(or communism), the science rate can be increased by 100(or less for luxuries) and use all of those massive savings to take care of things while you research techs every 2 or 3 turns in midgame. Once your well ahead of everyone else you can choose your path of endgame.

    Happy gaming
     
  11. The Ruffler

    The Ruffler Chieftain

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    Great ideas!! Maybe now I'll stop getting my a$$ handed to me...Thanks a whole lot!:cool:
     
  12. Neo Guderian

    Neo Guderian Panzerarmee General

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    By Il Mafioso, on another thread
    By now, those of us who didn't cheat our way out of corruption should have all realized that having cities celebrate WE LOVE THE KING day is a surefire cure for corruption.

    I have also observed the tendancy of build times to change radically and didn't pick up on what was causing it. But this seems to be the case, We Love the King Day reduced corruption.

    This little tidbit will work wonders for the Pope Strategy. Since there is a zero science rate setting, you can spend more on luxuries for your cities, thus reducing the effects of corruption and waste for a vast empire(theoretically).

    During my 2 hour lunch break I went home and started a game on diety utilizing the Pope Strategy. I had republic as early as 800 bc and something else i noted as very interesting is that the civs i bought the techs from didnt charge me hardly anything (ie. 80 gold, compare that to 800 gold i spent on a regent lvl game)
    The only problem was that I was weak and the AI went to war with me early on(i demanded that they leave my territory). I lost a city.

    The important thing i noticed is that corruption and waste are magnified at higher levels. a city only 9 spaces away was loosing a full 2 thirds to waste and corruption. Amazing.

    So Enter a favorite civ2 (and ctp) strategy i ofted used. Checkerboard expansion. This has drawbacks as well as benefits and perhaps should only be used by civs wanting conquest. It grants enormous productivity early on in a tiny space. Simply build cities one square from each other, as close as you can get them. Yes it reduces roads and such but in mid to late game after you capture more enemy cities that are larger you can move your palace there.

    I tried again on Diety and found that I was actually not last in terms of power and size. corruption wasnt too bad and I was actually able to compete.

    Another concept i used was to imediately lower the science rate to 0 from turn 1. WHen i finally met an AI i bought every single tech he had(greeks, 5 techs) and had cash to spare.

    THis is proving to be a very successful strategy. LONG LIVE THE POPE!.
     
  13. Blitz79

    Blitz79 Prince

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    What happens when a nuclear arms technology race begins, they won't sell, and you don't have the infrastructure to compete?
     
  14. Neo Guderian

    Neo Guderian Panzerarmee General

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    In theory(ive been doing mostly early to mid game testing of this strategy due to my belief that if you get the early strategy right, the late game will be easy) you can and will have the neccessary infrastructure. The more money you can generate and the more buildings you can rush, the more you can have WLTK day(to decrease corruption and waste) the better off your going to be when you finally pull your science rate up from 0% to 100 or 90%, You should at least be able to keep pace with the computer if not totally outpace him.(it will be harder to do so if you concentrate on militarism early on rather than diplomatic growth and infrastructure.)

    Once again I spent the night testing the 'Pope Strategy'.
    On Deity.

    To begin with, the most important item that will help you decide upon which strategy to undertake will be the map size, then civ type.

    Maps are like spam(maps backwards), the more there is, the nastier it gets. I have found the best method for using the pope strategy is on a standard map with the fewest possible cities. On Deity, with large maps, this strategy is difficult, unlesssss you pursue a militaristic strategy...which is what I did.

    I started as France again on a small island with the english. Seeing as I only had 3 cities I decided to conquer the english whelps. I did this in short order with archers and spearmen, then swordsmen. (i have read posts about lopsided battles with archers and did not experience anything of the sort, it actually favored me in combat.) With the Island firmly under my control, the english begged for peace and I acquired 3 cities and about 7 techs(a very good tactic for the Pope Strategy). I later went on to beat the English completely(they had a few island cities). I fought several wars with the Indians(the superpower in the game) and had totally forgotten about War Elephants(a nasty surprise that almost dealt a hard blow to my island when they landed 7 of these beasts). My attacks against the Indians were minimal and the last war we fought proved fatal to me(i refused to pay 7gold and give my map to them). They pulled far ahead of everyone else and thoroughly gave me an a$$ whooping.
    I feel I could have conquered the Indians IF I would have created the army I got from my great Leader on the Inidans home Island. Since by the time I had Galleons, the Indians were bombing me with seemingly endless amounts of ironclads and landing cavalry all over my island(WHICH my army of Veteran and Elite Knights barely defeated A SINGLE Cavalry). If i would have created the army in indian territory when i first acquired knights, I Feel I would have Defeated the Indians.

    HOWEVER, the Babylonians and Persians were ALWAYS Polite towards me(because of my enormous military might) AND sold me what techs they got very cheaply.

    I found out that using the pope strategy with monarchy(the government) is not so hot,,at first. When i swtiched to monarchy from despotism my enormous profits per turn(around 50+ gold per turn) dropped to 3. This is interesting since I didnt have any improvments and my army wasn't that enormous at the time. I have to research this more. In a previous game i went to a republic but had to boost the luxury rate up to 30% to keep the people happy and this nullified the point of the Pope Strategy,which is money. So my new strategy is to remain in despotism and rush build as many infrastrucutural buildings as possible to keep the people happy under a republic(it gives a tremendous amount of gold). This somewhat limits the militarstic sense but you can still fight short wars if you play your diplomacy right. Around 1500 ad or so you can then put the science rate all the way up and literally jump ahead of the AI in technology(using your savings to support your civ).

    I hope this helps any of you out there who are struggling, because I certainly am on Deity.(its not as hard as I thought it would be).
     
  15. Stuie

    Stuie Laudir Agus Mir

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    I've been using the famous "Reverse Pope" strategy. Can you tell I'm an atheist?

    Anyway, I work on science, trade for it, etc. early in the game, and by the Middle Ages I'm usually on par with the civs near me. Once the inevitable discovery of all the other civs takes place, I sell what techs I can to the new civs (keeping nothing back - they're going to get it anyway) and then use the money to max out my science research - 100%. The I'm able to stay ahead of the AI civs with research, and sell them new techs as I discover them. This has the duel effect of:

    1. Taxing the AI civs to the brink of bankruptcy and
    2. I get to pick and choose which techs to sell by the time I'm in the Industrial Age. I sell just enough to keep my economy humming and the AI in the poorhouse, and hold back the ones that I feel will be a threat to my civ if given to someone else.

    This has been successful on Regent level (large map, 16 civs thanks to the editor).
     
  16. eyrei

    eyrei Deity Retired Moderator

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    I like the reverse pope strategy much better. I hate being a technilogically backword civ with lots of money. Plus, using this strategy you can keep up, but you will never get ahead.
     
  17. Magnus

    Magnus Diplocat

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    Agreed - I like to take a scientific civ and go nuts on science - then you call up the other civs and offer them the tech but let them make the offer! I was routinely getting a resource, maps, lump sum gold (almost all they had) and a good chunk per turn! it PAYS to be #1 in science!
     
  18. Neo Guderian

    Neo Guderian Panzerarmee General

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    Ill certainly have to try it, but i am doubtful it will work on deity. By the time you are able to research 2 techs the AI has around 6-10. I found this out last night as I began a Deity game.

    Perhaps a combo of this sort would work, Zero Science till about 200 ad or so,, then zero money from there on out? I think that such a combo would allow the player to catch up to where the AI is, and then supercede the AI, on Deity and Emperor. Its just impossible to play science and get ahead of the AI on Deity, but it works on regent.

    time to do more research =)
     
  19. Uteno

    Uteno Chieftain

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    It definitely works great... "the pope strategy"... I saw it on the forum a few days ago, and tried it out. I'm a Iroquois regent right now, playing on a large, high land pangea map... I think that that's the best option. Here's what's up-->
    1. I set my tax rate to 0% science the first turn
    2. I built up maybe three scouts (this is where the 'expansionist' works). They explored alot, and got warriors, which I had explore more for me. I also got many, many free techs.
    3. At first, when I encountered other civs, I traded techs with them... but, with all my extra techs from huts, I am now better than anyone else. At this point I was SELLING techs for gold.
    4. As the Iroquois are RELIGIOUS, I could build lots of cheap temples... now all the other civs are in total awe of my culture! Now, in what we might dub the 'pope effect' they were willing to make ridiculous deals!! I trade math to someone for 32 gold per turn plus 40 gold.... incredible.
    5. As my explorations continue, I get monarchy... as soon as I switch, I start buying up improvements like mad w/ all my stored gold! Just before I last quit, I got republic... I may change, if the math is right.

    So this strat really works GREAT with religious (the awe) and expansionist (the tech) civs.
     
  20. Uteno

    Uteno Chieftain

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    Ok, an update on my utilization of this strategy: I'm a republic now, with exactly 100 extra gold per turn. I'm pretty sure we're all safely in the BC years... I can't remember. The world is pretty much explored, but those AI civs can't seem to do any research on their own!! I'm debating whether it would be better to switch to more science now...

    My other problem with the strat is that, not being able to bulid a wonder for a while first, and lacking the ability to buy wonders (that annoys me...), I have yet to get a wonder. Yes, I'm ashamed.
     

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