The Plan for Iran....

Che Guava

The Juicy Revolutionary
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A plan to attack Iran swiftly and from above


WASHINGTON — Massive, devastating air strikes, a full dose of "shock and awe" with hundreds of bunker-busting bombs slicing through concrete at more than a dozen nuclear sites across Iran is no longer just the idle musing of military planners and uber-hawks.

Although air strikes don't seem imminent as the U.S.-Iranian drama unfolds, planning for a bombing campaign and preparing for the geopolitical blowback has preoccupied military and political councils for months.

No one is predicting a full-blown ground war with Iran. The likeliest scenario, a blistering air war that could last as little as one night or as long as two weeks, would be designed to avoid the quagmire of invasion and regime change that now characterizes Iraq. But skepticism remains about whether any amount of bombing can substantially delay Iran's entry into the nuclear-weapons club.

Attacking Iran has gone far beyond the twilight musings of a lame-duck president. Almost all of those jockeying to succeed U.S. President George W. Bush are similarly bellicose. Both front-runners, Democrat Senator Hillary Clinton and Republican Rudy Giuliani, have said that Iran's ruling mullahs can't be allowed to go nuclear. "Iran would be very sure if I were president of the United States that I would not allow them to become nuclear," said Mr. Giuliani. Ms. Clinton is equally hard-line.

Nor does the threat come just from the United States. As hopes fade that sanctions and common sense might avert a military confrontation with Tehran - as they appear to have done with North Korea - other Western leaders are openly warning that bombing may be needed.

Unless Tehran scraps its clandestine and suspicious nuclear program and its quest for weapons-grade uranium (it already has the missiles capable of delivering an atomic warhead), the world will be "faced with an alternative that I call catastrophic: an Iranian bomb or the bombing of Iran," French President Nicolas Sarkozy has warned.

Bombing Iran would be relatively easy. Its antiquated air force and Russian air-defence missiles would be easy pickings for the U.S. warplanes.

But effectively destroying Iran's widely scattered and deeply buried nuclear facilities would be far harder, although achievable, according to air-power experts. But the fallout, especially the anger sown across much of the Muslim world by another U.S.-led attack in the Middle East, would be impossible to calculate.

Israel has twice launched pre-emptive air strikes ostensibly to cripple nuclear programs. In both instances, against Iraq in 1981 and Syria two months ago, the targeted regimes howled but did nothing.

The single-strike Israeli attacks would seem like pinpricks, compared with the rain of destruction U.S. warplanes would need to kneecap Iran's far larger nuclear network.

"American air strikes on Iran would vastly exceed the scope of the 1981 Israeli attack on the Osirak nuclear centre in Iraq, and would more resemble the opening days of the 2003 air campaign against Iraq," said John Pike, director at Globalsecurity.org, a leading defence and security group.

"Using the full force of operational B-2 stealth bombers, staging from Diego Garcia or flying direct from the United States," along with warplanes from land bases in the region and carriers at sea, at least two-dozen suspected nuclear sites would be targeted, he said.

Although U.S. ground forces are stretched thin with nearly 200,000 fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, the firepower of the U.S. air force and the warplanes aboard aircraft carriers could easily overwhelm Iran's defences, leaving U.S. warplanes in complete command of the skies and free to pound targets at will.

With air bases close by in neighbouring Iraq and Afghanistan, including Kandahar, and naval-carrier battle groups in the Persian Gulf and Indian Ocean, hundreds of U.S. warplanes serviced by scores of airborne refuellers could deliver a near constant hail of high explosives.

Fighter-bombers and radar-jammers would spearhead any attack. B-2 bombers, each capable of delivering 20 four-tonne bunker-busting bombs, along with smaller stealth bombers and streams of F-18s from the carriers could maintain an open-ended bombing campaign.

"They could keep it up until the end of time, which might be hastened by the bombing," Mr. Pike said. "They could make the rubble jump; there's plenty of stuff to bomb," he added, a reference to the now famous line from former defence secretary Donald Rumsfeld that Afghanistan was a "target-poor" country.

Mr. Pike believes it could all be over in a single night. Others predict days, or even weeks, of sustained bombing.

What is clear is that a score or more known nuclear sites would be destroyed. Some, in remote deserts, would present little risk of "collateral damage," military jargon for unintended civilian causalities. Others, like laboratories at the University of Tehran, in the heart of a teeming capital city, would be hard to destroy without killing innocent Iranians.

What would likely unfold would be weeks of escalating tension, following a breakdown of diplomatic efforts.

The next crisis point may come later this month if the UN Security Council becomes deadlocked over further sanctions.

"China and Russia are more concerned about the prospect of the U.S. bombing Iran than of Iran getting a nuclear bomb," says Karim Sadjadpour, an Iran expert at the Council on Foreign Relations.

Tehran remains defiant. Our enemies "must know that Iran will not give the slightest concession ... to any power," Iran's fiery President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said yesterday. For his part, Mr. Bush has pointedly refused to rule out resorting to war. Last month, another U.S. naval battle group - including the nuclear-powered aircraft carrier USS Harry S Truman with 100 warplanes on board and the Canadian frigate HMCS Charlottetown as one of its screen of smaller warships - left for the Persian Gulf. At least one, and often two, carrier battle groups are always in the region.

Whether even weeks of bombing would cripple Iran's nuclear program cannot be known. Mr. Pike believes it would set back, by a decade or more, the time Tehran needs to develop a nuclear warhead. But Iran's clandestine program - international inspectors were completely clueless as to the existence of several major sites until exiles ratted out the mullahs - may be so extensive that even the longest target list will miss some.

"It's not a question of whether we can do a strike or not and whether the strike could be effective," retired Marine general Anthony Zinni told Time magazine. "It certainly would be, to some degree. But are you prepared for all that follows?"

Attacked and humiliated, Iran might be tempted, as Mr. Ahmadinejad has suggested, to strike back, although Iran has limited military options.

At least some Sunni governments in the region, not least Saudi Arabia, would be secretly delighted to see the Shia mullahs in Tehran bloodied. But the grave risk of any military action spiralling into a regional war, especially if Mr. Ahmadinejad tried to make good on his threat to attack Israel, remains.

"Arab leaders would like to see Iran taken down a notch," said Steven Cook, an analyst specializing in the Arab world at the Council on Foreign Relations, "but their citizens will see this as what they perceive to be America's ongoing war on Islam."

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link

Hawks and doves: do you agree or disagree with the assesment of how a war with Iran might go?
 
It's going to happen with or without the American people's consent. People need to realise that big government is always going to look out for it's interests, and no politician shall stand in it's way, not even Ron Paul.
 
here's an excerpt from a somewhat recent seymour hersh article. i posted the link in another discussion about iran, but i felt it worth duplicating as the article gets into quite a bit of detail about what the current plans look like, what possible reactions will be from france and europe, as well as gets into a lot more detail about what possible iranian reactions will be. below is just an excerpt, the aritcle is much longer and well worth the read: Shifting Targets: The Administration's Plan for Iran



"If you want to attack, you have to prepare the groundwork, and you have to be prepared to show the evidence," Clawson said. Adding to the complexity, he said, is a question that seems almost counterintuitive: "What is the attitude of Iraq going to be if we hit Iran? Such an attack could put a strain on the Iraqi government."

A senior European diplomat, who works closely with American intelligence, told me that there is evidence that Iran has been making extensive preparation for an American bombing attack. "We know that the Iranians are strengthening their air-defense capabilities," he said, "and we believe they will react asymmetrically-hitting targets in Europe and in Latin America." There is also specific intelligence suggesting that Iran will be aided in these attacks by Hezbollah. "Hezbollah is capable, and they can do it," the diplomat said.

In interviews with current and former officials, there were repeated complaints about the paucity of reliable information. A former high-level C.I.A. official said that the intelligence about who is doing what inside Iran "is so thin that nobody even wants his name on it. This is the problem."



The revised bombing plan for a possible attack, with its tightened focus on counterterrorism, is gathering support among generals and admirals in the Pentagon. The strategy calls for the use of sea-launched cruise missiles and more precisely targeted ground attacks and bombing strikes, including plans to destroy the most important Revolutionary Guard training camps, supply depots, and command and control facilities.

...


"Cheney's option is now for a fast in and out-for surgical strikes," the former senior American intelligence official told me. The Joint Chiefs have turned to the Navy, he said, which had been chafing over its role in the Air Force-dominated air war in Iraq. "The Navy's planes, ships, and cruise missiles are in place in the Gulf and operating daily. They've got everything they need-even AWACS are in place and the targets in Iran have been programmed. The Navy is flying FA-18 missions every day in the Gulf." There are also plans to hit Iran's anti-aircraft surface-to-air missile sites. "We've got to get a path in and a path out," the former official said.

A Pentagon consultant on counterterrorism told me that, if the bombing campaign took place, it would be accompanied by a series of what he called "short, sharp incursions" by American Special Forces units into suspected Iranian training sites. He said, "Cheney is devoted to this, no question."

A limited bombing attack of this sort "only makes sense if the intelligence is good," the consultant said. If the targets are not clearly defined, the bombing "will start as limited, but then there will be an 'escalation special.' Planners will say that we have to deal with Hezbollah here and Syria there. The goal will be to hit the cue ball one time and have all the balls go in the pocket. But add-ons are always there in strike planning."

The surgical-strike plan has been shared with some of America's allies, who have had mixed reactions to it. Israel's military and political leaders were alarmed, believing, the consultant said, that it didn't sufficiently target Iran's nuclear facilities. The White House has been reassuring the Israeli government, the former senior official told me, that the more limited target list would still serve the goal of counter-proliferation by decapitating the leadership of the Revolutionary Guards, who are believed to have direct control over the nuclear-research program. "Our theory is that if we do the attacks as planned it will accomplish two things," the former senior official said.

An Israeli official said, "Our main focus has been the Iranian nuclear facilities, not because other things aren't important. We've worked on missile technology and terrorism, but we see the Iranian nuclear issue as one that cuts across everything." Iran, he added, does not need to develop an actual warhead to be a threat. "Our problems begin when they learn and master the nuclear fuel cycle and when they have the nuclear materials," he said. There was, for example, the possibility of a "dirty bomb," or of Iran's passing materials to terrorist groups. "There is still time for diplomacy to have an impact, but not a lot," the Israeli official said. "We believe the technological timetable is moving faster than the diplomatic timetable. And if diplomacy doesn't work, as they say, all options are on the table."
 
It's going to happen with or without the American people's consent. People need to realise that big government is always going to look out for it's interests, and no politician shall stand in it's way, not even Ron Paul.
Its certainly in its interest not to piss off all the Americans.
 
..coming soon to a 24h News Network near you!



link

Hawks and doves: do you agree or disagree with the assesment of how a war with Iran might go?
I think that's mostly accurate. It would be an air war, of bombs and missiles launched from planes and ships. There'd be no reason to invade with ground forces, and every reason not to. (And if Iran tried to invade Iraq or Afghanistan on either side in order to attack US troops there, they'd get their heads handed to them. And they'd unify the attacked country and make them like us more, to boot.) Militarily, I think there's little doubt that the US could fairly easily overwhelm and destroy Iran's air defenses, and hurt its nuclear program.

That isn't debatable. What is debatable is whether it would be worthwhile. How far could we set Iran back - a year? ten? thirty? - how many innocents would die, and how would Iran and the Muslim world respond? If we hurt Iran, both physically and mentally, will that hurt heal before they eventually do get nuclear weapons? Or have we just insured that they will get them, and that they'll want to use them on us?

While there's any hope of diplomacy, we should use that. But I do think that bombing Iranian nuclear facilities is probably better than letting them have nukes. We should just try all the alternative first, not just diplomacy, but espionage and sabotage and the like. (I liked El_Machinae's suggestion of buying out top Iranian scientists) But if we do attack, we should try to have as many people working with us as possible. Incluing *Sigh* the French, if possible. :sad:

At least that way they can't say "I told you so" when everything goes to hell.
 
Sounds good to me.
 
Fighter-bombers and radar-jammers would spearhead any attack. B-2 bombers, each capable of delivering 20 four-tonne bunker-busting bombs, along with smaller stealth bombers and streams of F-18s from the carriers could maintain an open-ended bombing campaign.

Maybe I don't understand the lexicon.

A B-2 can carry 80 tonnes of bombs? Or is a 'four-tonne' bomb something else?

Because ...
The aircraft carries all its weapons internally and is fitted with two separate weapons bays in the centre of the aircraft. The B-2 has the capacity to carry up to 40,000lb of weapons, including conventional and nuclear weapons, precision-guided munitions, gravity bombs and a range of maritime weapons.
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/b2/
 
if they do it, knowing it will piss off more muslims, then i don't want to hear any crying when they hit back.
 
OMG! Ahmadinejad is losing popular support! We must commence bombardments so that the Iranian people will flock to support him and his "Death to America" rhetoric! we cant have a stable middle east after all!
 
Why are China and Russia "more concerned about the prospect of the U.S. bombing Iran than of Iran getting a nuclear bomb"? What agenda and interests do they have?
 
We will be greeted as liberators!
 
Yeah, because they're being so reasonable now... :rolleyes:

i'm drawing a parallel to the events that led up to 9/11

keep meddling, and be prepared to be attacked.

so if there's another 9/11, no one better shed a tear because they think it was undeserved. they reaped what they sowed.
 
Dude, this is like, so totally what I'm talkin' about. Rock on, baby!! We deliver death from above like none other! Bomb them back into ancient times... heck, they wanna restore their old glory days anyhow. We can assist. :)
 
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